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Rangoon

"Repair if" - can this be applied to an entire side?

When designing a mission, do you have to apply "repair if" to each individual unit/platoon? Or can you somehow apply it to an entire side/force? I would like to have fuel leaks be repairable. If there is a way to apply that to an entire side it would save a lot of time.

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You can draw a box that is assigned "repair if" around the area, or entire map to set this condition/event.

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You can draw a box that is assigned "repair if" around the area, or entire map to set this condition/event.

Thanks. Does the area mean that if a unit begins in that area it will always be allowed that repair even after it has left that area? Or the repair is only allowed while the unit is in that area?

Drawing the area on the whole map takes care of that, but curious on that detail.

Also, for forum searches, can a mod please correct the typo in my forum title?

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I got back to the editor and tried to make a box to globally allow fuel leak repairs. I can't find a way to assign this to a graphic. Sorry, but can someone point me in the right direction? Can't find anything in the manual about it, other than in the unit options.

Do I somehow need to start in unit options and then it can be expanded to apply to all units within a specified "graphic" area?

Edited by Rangoon

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On the map Right click

To expand on 12Alfa's post ...

Select New graphic

Custom Region

Draw the region (for you to cover the entire map)

Name the region (say "fix leak")

Create units

For each unit (or on your case, since you want it to apply to all units, select them all)

Select "options" "repair if"

Select fuel leak

In the resulting logic box pick the 5th option "unit is ..." and select "fix leak" from list.

Can I suggest you watch Toyguy's excellent set of Mission Editor YouTube videos?

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On the map Right click

To expand on 12Alfa's post ...

Select New graphic

Custom Region

Draw the region (for you to cover the entire map)

Name the region (say "fix leak")

Create units

For each unit (or on your case, since you want it to apply to all units, select them all)

Select "options" "repair if"

Select fuel leak

In the resulting logic box pick the 5th option "unit is ..." and select "fix leak" from list.

Thanks, I will give this a try.

Can I suggest you watch Toyguy's excellent set of Mission Editor YouTube videos?

You absolutely can! Thank you and I will go seek these videos of Toyguy's out! :@!2:

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You can draw a box that is assigned "repair if" around the area, or entire map to set this condition/event.
On the map Right click

To expand on 12Alfa's post ...

Select New graphic

Custom Region

Draw the region (for you to cover the entire map)

Name the region (say "fix leak")

Create units

For each unit (or on your case, since you want it to apply to all units, select them all)

Select "options" "repair if"

Select fuel leak

In the resulting logic box pick the 5th option "unit is ..." and select "fix leak" from list.

Got this to work. My first failure was that I was not using a custom region. :c:

I set it up so that coolant and fuel leaks are repaired if the unit is in a custom region which encompasses the entire map, and if a trigger called "Repair Vehicle Present" is set, and then a delay of 15 minutes transpires.

Edit: I thought at first it wasn't working to NOT use a region, but instead to use the "unit is anywhere" selection. For some reason I was since able to get that working. So if I want to have any Blue vehicle be able to have leaks repaired, I don't actually need to define such a "repairs" region unless I want to limit that ability of course to a specific area.

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Edit: Removed because the post I was answering was "retro edited" after my answer so the answer was no longer relevant and posting it was a waste of time.

Edited by Gibsonm

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No idea, but probably because you didn't set a delay between the condition being try (i.e. the unit being "anywhere") and the consequence (it being fixed) happening.

It wasn't the delay. I had it working with no delay and "unit is anywhere" FWIW. Not sure what the problem was at first.

While we are at it I don't understand why you want a region that covers the whole map (say 22km x 22km) where a repair unit that might be 20km+ away can somehow miraculously repair a vehicle in 15 mins just because its in the same region (i.e. on the map).

Even it it was alongside it would take longer than that.

But its your scenario, I guess.

Not sure I follow this last part. I never said I wanted a repair vehicle 20km+ away to do the fixing. I want to be able to set a trigger since I can't find a logical argument that fits a certain unit (repair) being within a certain range (75m per the sim's rules) of another unit (the damaged unit). Doesn't a trigger take care of that? Or am I missing that line in the logical argument dialogue which allows for proving range between two specific units?

And IF the repair vehicle is alongside the damaged vehicle (not sure why it wouldn't be when I activate the trigger), then how many minutes should a fuel leak take to fix? I mean how many minutes would satisfy you? I don't know tanks, but I do know helicopters. And I have seen a helicopter fuel leak be fixed in less than 15 minutes. So maybe an average time is longer, and maybe some cannot be fixed in the field, but some can be, and some can take very little time. So what would the be "right" amount of time? Are all of eSim's repair times correct? I have no way of knowing. They chose not to allow them to be fixed, but did specifically give the power in the editor to allow them to be repairable. I don't know how long this repair should take to emulate the scenario of a field repair of a fuel leak. So...15 minutes is just a number more than 1 and less than four hours I guess.

In the end, I think it would be even better if the sim allowed fuel leaks to be repaired by default, but I'm sure they had a conscious, valid reason why they didn't. What I'm after at the moment is to keep working on a mission that is allowing me to learn how to play Steel Beasts better (including the editor). If I don't want a fuel leak to end my mission, I want to be able to fix it, but in a way that jives with the rest of the mechanics at play. Hopefully that explains it.

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And IF the repair vehicle is alongside the damaged vehicle (not sure why it wouldn't be when I activate the trigger), then how many minutes should a fuel leak take to fix? I mean how many minutes would satisfy you? I don't know tanks, but I do know helicopters. And I have seen a helicopter fuel leak be fixed in less than 15 minutes.

It totally depends on the circumstances. If the fuel tank has been ruptured by the overpressure of a large caliber round going through it you can no longer compare it to small caliber bullet holes in a helicopter. You would need some serious welding done, and before that can be done you have to clear the area of fuel spill.

Steel Beasts doesn't model this level of detail.

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It totally depends on the circumstances. If the fuel tank has been ruptured by the overpressure of a large caliber round going through it you can no longer compare it to small caliber bullet holes in a helicopter. You would need some serious welding done, and before that can be done you have to clear the area of fuel spill.

Steel Beasts doesn't model this level of detail.

That does sound like it would take some time. Like I said, I have no doubt there is a conscious reason why eSim doesn't by default allow fuel leaks to be repaired. I just wanted, since it is fathomable that they could be, to have the ability to press on during this particular SP mission using other support assets that I'm still exploring the use of (repair vehicles and area security infantry, etc.).

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There's still the option to use repair zones and repair, if... conditions on the units themselves. Also, you can use a fuel truck to pour fuel into a leaking tank. It will still give you a little mobility, just not very much, and tie down your resupply assets (which is intentional in this context).

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Heh, yeah, I brought this up some time ago. Fuel leaks for me do not seem like something that would down a MBT that has multiple fuel cells... unless all are destroyed. Any line issues from the fuel tanks to the engine should be semi-easily repaired depending on accessibility or bypassed. Anything dealing with the fuel injection system or such could be placed under engine repair. As far as spills, siphon out any standing fuel, then use a surfactant and/or some speedy dry 'kitty litter' and a bit of water to clean up spills.

I've worked on various aircraft, commercial and non commercial vehicles, so it's a little hard for me to accept that something is not repairable or bypassable within certain conditions of course. So long as it is not a flying machine, jury rigging something to work (sometimes to limp home, or to make it as good if not better) is usually an option.

Anyway, I usually just setup the units under options to 'Repair if fuel leak 15 minutes after true'. If I have a refueler, great, if not, then I have a pill box with an especially bored driver.

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Since most sce are 2 hours long or less, I usually create a rear all region pretty far in the rear. Usually this repair region requires an M-88 to also be present, and it will have a short delay, maybe 5 minutes. That way, a damaged unit burns time driving or getting towed by one of the valuable M-88 back to the MCRP and then has to wait 5 minutes for a repair (if an M-88 remains in the region) and then has to drive back to the action. Its an abstraction. Most of the damages couldn't be repaired in the length of a 2 hour scenario. SO there is a penalty for getting damaged but nothing that cannot be overcome. The delay also thwarted an exploiter who used to fight from within a repair all zone with no delay added, so whenever they took a non lethal hit, it was instantly repaired. This can also be done with "if this unit cannot see any enemy forces" or "is not under fire/indirect fire" also.

Remember that a fuel and supply truck will need to be on hand because instantly fixing ammo storage does not refill the racks with ammo. Same with fuel.

Mog

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Fuel leaks for me do not seem like something that would down a MBT that has multiple fuel cells... unless all are destroyed.

Again, it really depends on what kind of a scenario we're talking about.

, technically speaking it's "just" a fuel cell rupture, but apparently not a benign case to put it mildly. I'm not saying that all fuel cell ruptures will end up like that one, but maybe it opens up your mind that there is a wide spectrum of possible outcomes.

In any case, the customer's request at the time was that once that this damage occurs the crew should have a 15 minute grace period to react adequately to such an incident - like, withdrawing from the battle behind cover and then to initiate field repairs. Given that no fiery death is involved in SB Pro, I suppose the 15 minute grace period before mobility damage occurs is not as harsh as it may appear at first sight.

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Ammo racks that have sustained damage I cannot see being repaired in the field, same with the main gun. So if my tank is ammo racked (and survived) or has it's main gun taken out, it just has to make due with rear guard against infantry and trucks.

Fuel leaks to me are repairable, especially if it is in the line, unless it is a fuel cell in which case it should only reduce fuel capacity if one or two fuel cell are taken out. Perhaps it would be an issue if it is due to the fuel injection line, fuel injectors or fuel injector pump (not to be confused with a fuel pump, big difference in pressure) if you don't have the parts, but that could be repairs considered under 'engine repair'. Carburetors are easy to repair for the older vehicles.

Coolant leak is easily repairable, unless it is damage to the engine block or water pump (which would more than likely mean the engine itself has bigger issues if the leak is due to taking damage from a round), or to the the radiator on older tanks. However, due to the modular design of the newer AFVs, the radiator is part of the power plant pack now a days.

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I'm a little pained that you feel I'm so closed minded. I do not recall claiming anything in absolutes.

I am also not asking for anything to be changed. I am simply stating my opinion.

To me, field repairing an engine is a much more difficult task than repairing a fuel leak. I feel engine destruction is more of a drag it back to base and swap power plants than most fuel leak instances.

A fuel tank full of diesel makes for pretty good spaced armor. And if the round does not penetrate all the way through or into some vital part of the tank, I don't really see a fiery death scenario in most cases involving diesel in newer tanks. (I do not usually setup fuel repair on older tanks)

I just simply feel that there would be more cases in which the fuel leak is repairable than not. And definitely more repairable than an engine.

Unless of course fuel cell destruction begins making its way into the simulation like the various stability damages. Then I would not use the repair fuel leak.

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To me, field repairing an engine is a much more difficult task than repairing a fuel leak. I feel engine destruction is more of a drag it back to base and swap power plants than most fuel leak instances.

Usually the "field repair" is to swap out the power pack because that is a set timeframe (say 20-30mins) and then you are back in the fight.

This tends to be quicker than trying to chase down the fault which can be done "at leisure" back in the workshop.

Unless of course its something "really easy" and obvious which potentially should be detected by the crew as part of their initial diagnosis.

Chasing down fuel lines that may well be inaccessible and potentially cracked by the impact of a round is a bit different than it leaking out the bottom of say a civilian motor vehicle and forming a nice pool on the ground. :)

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Usually the "field repair" is to swap out the power pack because that is a set timeframe (say 20-30mins) and then you are back in the fight.

True, except an engine repair is set to 300 some odd minutes in the sim (probably to drag a new power pack from base to the downed tank is what I assume it simulates) which is why I do not reduce the engine repair time to 20-30 minutes.

As far as tracing the leak, I think a big hole in your tank and a pooling of fuel kind of helps give you an idea... in most cases. :P

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True, except an engine repair is set to 300 some odd minutes in the sim (probably to drag a new power pack from base to the downed tank is what I assume it simulates) which is why I do not reduce the engine repair time to 20-30 minutes.

Well with Leo 1 at least the AVM (Wisent) used to move around with a power pack on the hull so it was ready to do the "swap" when it arrived.

Trying to remember if the M88 can carry one "bolted on" or not.

As far as tracing the leak, I think a big hole in your tank and a pooling of fuel kind of helps give you an idea... in most cases. :P

Except as I said the shock of the impact transferred through the hull can result in a crack/leak in a different place (even on the other side of the hull).

Yes, usually the lines are shock mounted but this only absorbs so much.

Sort of depends on where the lines run and where the impact point is, etc.

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Well with Leo 1 at least the AVM (Wisent) used to move around with a power pack on the hull so it was ready to do the "swap" when it arrived.

Trying to remember if the M88 can carry one "bolted on" or not.

Nice. Wonder why the sim is set for engine repairs for 300 some odd minutes then. Unless it simulates other issues due to damage.

EDIT: ^ when a Wisent or (possibly) M88 is nearby at least.

Except as I said the shock of the impact transferred through the hull can result in a crack/leak in a different place (even on the other side of the hull).

Yes, usually the lines are shock mounted but this only absorbs so much.

Sort of depends on where the lines run and where the impact point is, etc.

True.

Just need to find a way to simulate the infinite number of possible issues. Could be kind of fun. "Doo di doo di doo... um, we just had two tanks spontaneously explode, one turned inside out and one went to the moon. Quick, take a screen shot!" hmm, perhaps quantum mechanics should not be one thing implemented.

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Well with Leo 1 at least the AVM (Wisent) used to move around with a power pack on the hull so it was ready to do the "swap" when it arrived.

Trying to remember if the M88 can carry one "bolted on" or not.

Nice. Wonder why the sim is set for engine repairs for 300 some odd minutes then. Unless it simulates other issues due to damage.

EDIT: ^ when a Wisent or (possibly) M88 is nearby at least.

As per 2min 49sec in this video (a bit dated now I know):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19518131/1%20Armd.avi

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True, except an engine repair is set to 300 some odd minutes in the sim (probably to drag a new power pack from base to the downed tank is what I assume it simulates) which is why I do not reduce the engine repair time to 20-30 minutes.

I haven't tested it lately, but the presence of an M88 or Wisent should actually reduce the engine repair time (and other repair times) substantially. We don't animate the swapping of the engine block, and I can't promise that it's implemented for every vehicle, but it may be worth taking the time for a test.

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I haven't tested it lately, but the presence of an M88 or Wisent should actually reduce the engine repair time (and other repair times) substantially. We don't animate the swapping of the engine block, and I can't promise that it's implemented for every vehicle, but it may be worth taking the time for a test.

Nopie, no difference in time as far as field repair with or without a repair vehicle that I have ever noticed. Only that certain damage is repaired in the presence of repair vehicles versus not. Also fuel and coolant damage does not get repaired when a repair vehicle is around, though from what I am led to understand that is how it is supposed to be setup.

Edited by Azure Lion

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