F8 Restriction

[Asid]

Hi

I was designing a mission and tried to add immersion and realism by NOT allowing the user to use the F8 view. If you want to see whats outside then unbutton and look out of the turret.

The option only works in single player. I believe this would be a n excellent addition.

Is it a bug? It works in single player. If not then why does it not work in MP?

Regards.

[Gibsonm]

Hi

I was designing a mission and tried to add immersion and realism by NOT allowing the user to use the F8 view. If you want to see whats outside then unbutton and look out of the turret.

The option only works in single player. I believe this would be a n excellent addition.

Is it a bug? It works in single player. If not then why does it not work in MP?

Regards.

Well the whole "observer" position is there for the product's fundamental job of being a trainer.

How can I assess how you are going as a trainee crew commander if I can't see what you and your vehicle are doing?

In RL I sit on the turret roof or in the bustle bin/rack and the F8 option replicates that.

Not required in single player as you are on your own.

It would also mean that others who maybe in a mission, but have their vehicle destroyed, would be stuck at their burning wreck and not be able to ride "with" another crewed vehicle and remain entertained.

It can also be argued that in MP when you need to jump from vehicle to vehicle to check what the AI is doing or fine tune it, then F8 is far better as a quick way to gain situational awareness than going to F7 and standing up - just to see you are now stuck to a building for example.

I guess if you really don't want to use it, remove the keyboard mapping so while its still there, you can't access it.

[Asid]

Well the whole "observer" position is there for the product's fundamental job of being a trainer.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. While i take on board your points. I am not a trainer and feel that the ability to disable F8 view in multiplayer would add extra value for the (PE) user.

Regards

[Asid]

It would also mean that others who maybe in a mission, but have their vehicle destroyed, would be stuck at their burning wreck and not be able to ride "with" another crewed vehicle and remain entertained.

If the sim is used for educational purposes then the above is a mute point.

Suggestion.

If the F8 was implemented and no view was available (you could choose to use it or not). Then if someone lost their tank they could be "ported" to the F5 map screen. They could then ask for a position (driver, gunner or TC) rather than just jump into one. A solution worth considering i would think.

Regards

[Ssnake]

We tried it once, and it resulted in all kinds of weird resulty (e.g. if your tank gets killed you're automatically transported into the external observer position - which is now locked. So you get forced back into your crew position - which no longer exists. Hilarity ensues.

These issues can probably be worked out eventually (with sufficient exceptions for instructors), but as it turned out that a quick hack wouldn't do the job we put the whole thing on the back burner while there was a ton of other stuff to do (and for the last four years you're one of less than five cases that who asked for its implementation, so it doesn't appear to be very high on the priority list for most).

[Volcano]

Right, the problem was that when people jumped around to vehicle to vehicle (either voluntarily or involuntarily) then they have to be placed into the vehicle, because there is no observer position.

Imagine: In the heat of the battle you end up with users jumping in and out of your gunner or driver position as you are trying to fight the enemy, and of course the person that dropped in wouldn't know what the heck was going on at the moment. This causes your tank to die because the turret/tank would be momentarily unresponsive as you screamed at them to leave (then the process repeats as they jump into some other person's tank).

So no, it is something that just isn't practical in multiplayer unfortunately, without totally redesigning how things work, because people have to have somewhere to go.

[12Alfa]

Well they could go to the F5 view, where they should go after having a veh destroyed:gun:. This would I think solve the issue of where do "they" go.:luxhello:

[Rotareneg]

I always thought that was a bit odd that you could float over your corpse like a ghost and still see everything going on. :angel:

[Asid]

Some thoughts on the F8 option

Right, the problem was that when people jumped around to vehicle to vehicle (either voluntarily or involuntarily) then they have to be placed into the vehicle, because there is no observer position.

Is the "F5" position not a viable position to occupy? It would keep the player in the mission and allow them to see the friendly movements.

Imagine: In the heat of the battle you end up with users jumping in and out of your gunner or driver position as you are trying to fight the enemy, and of course the person that dropped in wouldn't know what the heck was going on at the moment. This causes your tank to die because the turret/tank would be momentarily unresponsive as you screamed at them to leave (then the process repeats as they jump into some other person's tank).

Surely a considerate and courteous player would not "jump around" if they are made aware that it is not an option or desired.

So no, it is something that just isn't practical in multiplayer unfortunately, without totally redesigning how things work, because people have to have somewhere to go.

Can it not me made available as an option where the players decide whether to implement it or not?

Well they could go to the F5 view, where they should go after having a veh destroyed:gun:. This would I think solve the issue of where do "they" go.:luxhello:

I would agree

I always thought that was a bit odd that you could float over your corpse like a ghost and still see everything going on. :angel:

This gives an unfair advantage surely. If you get killed and are in F8 view in tour destroyed vehicle you can act as a recon asset. You can report enemy movement.

Regards

[Mogwa]

As has been already stated it was tried before and does not work.

F8 also give situational awareness that a real life tank commander can get (by leaning out of the hatch, standing on the turret, etc) that F7 does not provide.

[Asid]

F8 also give situational awareness that a real life tank commander can get (by leaning out of the hatch, standing on the turret, etc) that F7 does not provide.

Does a real life TC have the ability to gain situational awareness "by leaning out of the hatch, standing on the turret, etc" when the tank is destroyed and crew killed?

Does a real life TC have the ability to relay information to the CO after tank and crew are destroyed?

Also would a real life TC have the ability to see what the F8 view shows while on the move? What about under direct fire?

Just curious as some of the replies seem contradictory to me.

F8 is different from the TC standing in hatch view.

I still believe that disabling the F8 view in MP would greatly add to the immersion.

Regards

[Volcano]

Well they could go to the F5 view, where they should go after having a veh destroyed:gun:. This would I think solve the issue of where do "they" go.:luxhello:

NO, the problem is that the F5 view is not an actual position - it is a view. If you go the map, then you are viewing the map from the crew position you occupy, you are not atomized and floating through space as pixy dust while you are at the map. And it really wouldn't make sense to do that either, because as you are looking at the map, the AI would take over until you looked away from map, as if there is a 5th person in the tank. The only exception to all of this is when you are dead, you are allowed to occupy the dead vehicle and access the map for "some amount of time" and we do this out of courtesy. This works fine at the moment, but it can turn into gamey behavior when someone sits in the dead vehicle to be an invisible FO (which is why I think you are kicked to a unit after some time, or you are supposed to be anyway).

This is why I said it could not be done without extensively reworking the way things work, and that isn't going to happen any time soon regardless of how much people think it would increase immersion.

Besides, we did addressed most of the external view's usefulness by restricting magnified zoom unless the vehicle is un-playable, and this was the reason why the change was made in the first place.

[Mogwa]

Does a real life TC have the ability to gain situational awareness "by leaning out of the hatch, standing on the turret, etc" when the tank is destroyed and crew killed?

Does a real life TC have the ability to relay information to the CO after tank and crew are destroyed?

Also would a real life TC have the ability to see what the F8 view shows while on the move? What about under direct fire?

Just curious as some of the replies seem contradictory to me.

F8 is different from the TC standing in hatch view.

I still believe that disabling the F8 view in MP would greatly add to the immersion.

Regards

Of course a real life tank commander doesn't do anything when hes dead. Save your snark for someone else.

As for the exploit, the cure was worse than the disease. When I'm dead, I move to another one of my vehicles, or something well away from the fight if that's not an option. Apparently it sounds like you do otherwise.

As for moving around in the hatch, I did it when I was on a tank. Obviously, I didn't hang over the side, but I get more SA from the F8 view than the F7 unbuttoned view which I don't think much of.

[Ssnake]

Well they could go to the F5 view, where they should go after having a veh destroyed. This would I think solve the issue of where do "they" go.

No, it doesn't. You will notice that if you're in a crew position and hit F5, you're still in that crew position, just looking at the map. So, looking at the map is not "a position", it's "a view" of a position just like F1, F2, F3, etc.

Given that your vehicle has just been destroyed, so have all of its crew positions with it. The only viable place to go (other than a different unit) is the observer's position.

If it were such a trivial issue, Al would have solved it back then.

[Cpl_Punishment]

Place a vehicle under the world. When a player dies transport him to this vehicle. Have the only available position be the observer position.

[Asid]

Of course a real life tank commander doesn't do anything when hes dead. Save your snark for someone else.

Mogwa i replied to your comment in a sincere manner. If you see "snark" then maybe you should go to "Specsavers".

If you do not wish to enter into constructive discussion then i would suggest you refrain from commenting on my posts in the future.

When I'm dead, I move to another one of my vehicles, or something well away from the fight if that's not an option. Apparently it sounds like you do otherwise.

Mogwa of course you have played SB with me on many occasions and would know that from experience.

Regards

[Asid]

If it were such a trivial issue, Al would have solved it back then.

Ssnake i am not suggesting that it is a trivial matter. I am only discussing the possibilities of such an implementation. After all this is an internet forum.

Regards

[Ssnake]

The remark wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular. No need to go all bold text here.

[Asid]

The remark wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular. No need to go all bold text here.

I have a habit of going bold... reflects my hairstyle :cool2:

[Asid]

Hi

Would it be viable/possible to have the F8 view disabled for players who have not been eliminated/destroyed, while still having the F8 for when a player has lost the vehicle to allow a "place" to go?

Regards

[Ssnake]

I refuse to speculate what might be possible or not. I'm not a coder, and I won't go asking them given that they all have their hands full with other questions which, at the moment, have a much higher priority for us.

Rest assured, one day we'll be looking into the matter, maybe even before releasing the next major upgrade.

[Asid]

Rest assured, one day we'll be looking into the matter, maybe even before releasing the next major upgrade.

I look forward to that day. Thank you.

Regards

[Richard7506]

Has this been implemented at all or still on the back burner?

It would be a nice option if able to implement and all

 

[Ssnake]

Well, here's some context:

• It's bug #2226 of currently 5434 entries in the bug tracking database, of which 3195 have been closed.
• It's been assigned a "medium" priority. 71 entries have a higher priority, 698 entries have the same priority, 789 entries have been assigned a lower priority.

 

Fixing bugs is one of our higher strategic priorities, but not the only one.