GERMANY - ARMY AUTHORIZES PUMA FIGHTING VEHICLE FOR OPERATIONS (APR 21/PSM)

[Hedgehog]

You end up in a situation where you are forced to write specs/contract in a way that "non experts"(=people who studied law or economics, and politicians) are able to "understand" it.

At which point the paper becomes near unreadable for an engineer.

This describes the setting pretty well:

HA!

[Furia]

You end up in a situation where you are forced to write specs/contract in a way that "non experts"(=people who studied law or economics, and politicians) are able to "understand" it.

At which point the paper becomes near unreadable for an engineer.

This describes the setting pretty well:

LOL Awesome. Real as life. :luxhello:

[Hedgehog]

"You want 7 perpendicular red lines using green ink?"

Well, I possible option would be to redefine 'Green' as 'Red'.

Would that be suitable?

[Tacbat]

Or wear tinted glasses that make green look red.

[Hedgehog]

Or wear tinted glasses that make green look red.

Aha!

But then you get the "fitted for but not with" problem.

[Skybird03]

I have never been a fan of the airbus A400M, but today the project got another blow. The german Luftwaffe decided that it was time to admit that reality cannot wait anylonger for Airbus getting its acts together, and that the A400M never will be able to do all it was planned to do anyway. The Luftwaffe thus decided to start buying C130J Hercules transports by Lockheed Martin. For the moment, these are only planned to be brought intoa new to-be-build German French military unit and will see the German trnapsorts being stationed in France.

 

I could easily imagine that more Hercules buying will follow. Its a proven design, it does what it should do, the J-model is coming with latest electronics cockpit and loading systems despite beign 20 years old since the J verison was released, and it is in service with several other nations air forces/armies as well.

 

I wonder however what this will mean for the Puma, and in how far the Hercules can replace the planned A400M Dreamplane that was in parts specifically designed to transport right the Puma, and the Puma was designed with getting transported in Airbus Dreamplanes. 

 

I also wonder about the costs. If the Hercules is cheaper, and the Airbus project continues to burn money like fire consumes oxygen, it could mean that sooner or later somebody thinks it would be a good idea to kick the whole A400M disaster over board completely. IMO that is many years overdue. The Dreamplane will always be a problematic, foul compromise at best. And for that, hopelessly overpriced.

 

BTW, I like Hercules planes. They are a good design, and in the 80s, during the second half of my  my school time, we lived in West Berlin, 2-3 km west of Tempelhof runway and right in the final approach line, so that Galaxys and Hercules often flew right and exactly over our appartment house. The screeching noise of C-5s is a real pain in the ear, it can really hurt,  but a Hercules' low humming, flying low over your head, is unmistakable, friendlier,  and familiar to me. It was terryfying however to see how real low they passed our position on some days. You thought their undercarriage would take parts of the roof with them. On other days, they stayed higher. I did a lot of sim-flying myself, and know some stuff on it. But I never found an explanation for why your altitude during final approach on fair weather days would vary so tremendously. Even more since it was densely populated areas you cross over when landing at Tempelhof. You would want to stay as high as possible then. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Skybird03

[12Alfa]

That should read  

"Germany is looking at buying 4-6 new C-130J military troop transport planes and operating them jointly with France, placing a further dent in plans for a fully European airlift capability following the delayed A400M.

 

signed an agreement in Paris late on Tuesday to study a joint tactical airlift pool of C-130J aircraft, the German defence ministry said.

 

 

Source -  AEROSPACE & DEFENSE | Wed Oct 5, 2016 | 10:14am EDT

[ChrisWerb]

On 23/04/2015 at 0:27 AM, Ssnake said:

Money.

In order to get the funds approved, the design was amended to be "fitted for, but not with" an ATGM system. Of course everybody knew that it was basically a scam to get it past the parliamentary approval (back when the majority was in the hands of the Greens and the social democrats). Unlike Britain however, where pretty much everything seems to be fitted for but not with, the missiles will actually materialize; the additional funds have since been approved.

 

Well, in the case of the Type 45 destroyer, which is perhaps the most classic example, the Harpoon missiles and CIWS did turn up - they were taken from other ships as they retired for scrapping. I know because I was on a Type 45 a few months back and have the photos to prove it   We do have some other procurement categories though:

 

1. Fitted for the remote possibility of being fitted with, but we know it will remain a pipe-dream - Tomahawk on T45.

2. Fitted with, but not admitted to - Exactor missile, laser dazzler system, Gibraltar MM38 Exocet battery..

3. Bizarrely not fitted with - APS on Challenger II, AS torpedo tubes on T45 destroyer, power elevation on Warrior.

[ChrisWerb]

The Puma wasn't the only vehicle specified to fit into a specific transport plane. The Stryker was intended to fit in a C-130 in its baseline configuration, although some other vehicles in Stryker formations were not C-130 tranportable and the C-130 couldn't carry it the specified range (1000 miles?). UK plans for the abortive FRES also initially featured C-130 transportability which was subsequently dropped as unworkable. Both vehicles were built on the 1990s fad for quick surgical interventions in air portable vehicles operating under total air supremacy against an unimaginative, ill equipped and inexplicably ethical enemy. It didn't quite work out that way, but some countries' armies  - Belgium's in particular - still seem to be trained and equipped around that assumption.

[Ssnake]

The irony is that the Bundeswehr originally wanted Antonovs with Western avionics in them. The Bundeswehr was then told by the politicians that they wanted a smaller plane built in Europe, and being soldiers, they agreed of course. Now we're getting an even smaller plane. Yay.

[Grenny]

hope still is that the C130 is an addition to the A400M fleet not a replacement.

 

Also someone NOW suddenly realized that the A400M is a tad too big for some roles ?

[Hedgehog]

Pfft.

 

Do what we do.

Sub contract the heavy Transport out, use P&O ferries. I think thats what happened with Desert Storm and Op Telic.

That way you only have to worry about bombs bullets and fuel. 

 

Anyway, I wonder what the 30mm EOB will be on the Puma?

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Hedgehog