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blazer05

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Returning from a long hiatus from SB - and having lost the software, dongle etc. some time ago.

I have purchased the latest version and was wondering if anyone has ever used a Saitek yoke (used for flight simulation) for SB?

Or do I need to find my Thrustmaster and plug it back up?

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A few people use these "HOTAS" systems.

I bought one and then gave it away as:

- The joystick part was "right handed"

- I had no need / interest in the throttle part.

- Its was one unit (so you couldn't just connect the joystick and bin the throttle). Its all or nothing so I happily went with nothing.

As I say though others swear by them (I just swore at it). :)

Basically though there are four groups here:

1. Those who love using a mouse and keyboard.

2. Those who love using a joystick and keyboard.

3. Those who love using a HOTAS and keyboard.

4. Those who love using a replica controller (e.g. AFV Sim product) and keyboard. However this is a fairly niche part of the market.

"Just because its different, doesn't make it wrong."

Edited by Gibsonm

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I haven't used a yoke, and I'm not sure what you'd use the push/pull axis for (maybe gun elevation). But I do use a HOTAS. The throttle sits off to the side and I never touch it, although it is programmed. If the yoke has its own programming software (as most Saitek stuff does), the possibilities are virtually limitless because the controller can emulate key presses.

Just keep in mind that using a joystick/HOTAS/yoke/whatever does not disable the mouse and you can switch between the two on the fly, which I frequently do.

In summary, I'd say: try it out, you've got nothing to lose. :)

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I haven't used a yoke, and I'm not sure what you'd use the push/pull axis for (maybe gun elevation).

The forward/backward movement of a yoke acts just like a joystick. AFAIK the yoke was developed shortly after WWII as a way of clearing the cockpit floor area of the conventional joystick. These days the conventional joystick is rarely to be seen and the yoke has been replaced on modern airliners and the like with the sidestick controller, which as the Air France accident of a few years ago showed, has its disadvantages as neither pilot can actually see what the other one is doing with his. None of which has anything to do with SB, of course. :c:

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A few people use these "HOTAS" systems.

I bought one and then gave it away as:

- The joystick part was "right handed"

- I had no need / interest in the throttle part.

-

Mark, didn't you eventually manage to find a good LH or 'hand-swappable' joystick? I agree that a flight sim throttle is redundant in SB, but the better ones put lots of hats/buttons/switches right under the fingers of your left (right in your case) hand, which is quite convenient. That's assuming the throttle is separate from the stick and can be positioned on the correct side.

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Mark, didn't you eventually manage to find a good LH or 'hand-swappable' joystick? I agree that a flight sim throttle is redundant in SB, but the better ones put lots of hats/buttons/switches right under the fingers of your left (right in your case) hand, which is quite convenient. That's assuming the throttle is separate from the stick and can be positioned on the correct side.

Yes, I found a joystick.

However I don't use it much as when doing this in training at various locations I need to be comfortable using a mouse or indeed a AFV sim controller.

So I stay proficient with the mouse/keyboard combo as the lowest common denominator.

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I use a Thrustmaster T1600M for SB, in left-handed format. Can recommend it. I tried using a HOTAS (right-handed), as I use one for flight sims (X52 pro) but it didn't suit.

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I use a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS for SB, because I started flying in DCS, so I bought one. I have written a fairly simple control file which I am happy to share with anyone who wants it.

The reality seems to be that the hardcore guys like Gibson (confessed in this thread) and Rotar (as evidenced by his youtube posts) can pull off amazing control with mouse and keyboard. If you have the patience, and also want to play on your laptop when travelling, then this is clearly the way to go.

I contacted AFV SIMS regarding their controller and got a nice email back which told me that their product would cost >10x the Thrustmaster Warthog rig. If that hadn't been so silly, I would have got one on the basis that the controllers have evolved since the tank was first deployed in WW1 for a reason: so ,Tjay, while a flight yoke looks like a tank gun controller, it has one axis that is not required (push/pull) and lacks one that is (wrist up/down).

Maybe we can convince AFV to come off their silly $ number and buy some in bulk? They cannot cost that much more to produce that a Thrustmaster Warthog.

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GreencroftDurham,

There's a couple of aspects to this.

1. AFV Sim's pricing reflects the small quantities that they manufacture (compared to any joystick manufacturer). It also reflects the lifelike "look and feel" they have in terms of pressure, etc.

Their primary market is for military customers who want an exact copy of what is in the turret without removing the gear from the turret and setting it up on a bench.

2. As I understand it, the AFV Sim products can not be exported / imported to / into some countries as its considered military equipement and subject to restrictions.

3. Even if you somehow got the price down they are not "one size fits all".

Want to be a Leo Gunner?

Want to be a Leo Commander?

Want to be a CR2 Gunner?

Want to be a Bradley / ASLAV gunner / commander?

That is four totally unique controllers (all currently at a high price for a civilian customer) that you'd need to plug/unplug as required as you move from vehicle to vehicle or even crew station to crew station within vehicle.

A dedicated, single position only replica controller, is the price you pay for a high quality replica of a single position only real controller.

4. Lastly as an aspect of their build quality they are hardly "portable" (as in throw in your laptop bag), even if you resolve to only need one.

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...you can easily smash a laptop to pieces with these controllers (or a human skull, if needed be). The parts are milled from massive aluminum blocks. Warthogs are mass produced with plastic molding. Once that the molds are made you can create hundreds of thousands of copies for virtually no costs (in comparison to the creation of the mold, which is like 40,000 bucks each).

For small series production, these tooling costs of plastic mold injection are prohibitive. Looking at the total costs (the sum of preparation & production time, tooling costs, material, assembly, shipping) milling is the cheapest option that delivers consistent quality.

The price to compare against is not the Warthog (though that's understandable from a consumer's point of view) but the real handle, which is about six times more expensive than the replica. So, for a military customer there's already a substantial price drop involved.

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so ,Tjay, while a flight yoke looks like a tank gun controller, it has one axis that is not required (push/pull) and lacks one that is (wrist up/down).

Only just seen this as a result of Ssnake's recent post. AFAIK, (and as I said) a yoke works just like a joystick. So the push/pull axis controls gun elevation and the turning axis (roll control in a real aircraft) does left/right. Same effects in the 3D world view. But I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong; I've never used a yoke in SB>

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. Warthogs are mass produced with plastic molding. Once that the molds are made you can create hundreds of thousands of copies for virtually no costs (in comparison to the creation of the mold, which is like 40,000 bucks each).

You've not used a Warthog have you?. There is very little plastic in it. Most of the construction is metal.

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Returning from a long hiatus from SB - and having lost the software, dongle etc. some time ago.

I have purchased the latest version and was wondering if anyone has ever used a Saitek yoke (used for flight simulation) for SB?

Or do I need to find my Thrustmaster and plug it back up?

Welcome back:luxhello:

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You've not used a Warthog have you?. There is very little plastic in it. Most of the construction is metal.

  1. No, the centering spring is way too stiff for my taste. Which implies that I at least had one in my hands. It's been a while, though.
  2. Even then none of the metal parts require extensive tooling. They buy the parts as a commodity and assemble them (or have them pre-assembled and wired in China, most likely).
    In other words, you have mass-produced parts with the economies of scale that this entails, plus assembly costs.
    CNC milling cannot possibly compete with that, price wise. But you still have curved grip elements that aren't a commodity, and you only need tiny numbers of them. Mass production simply is not an option.

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Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you on the relative values but the Warthog is a damned well made piece of kit.

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AFAIK, there is a modification kit that softens the centring resistance with replacment springs, and replaces the mechanical pots with Hall sensors. General opinion (whoever he is) seems to be that this vastly improves the thing. :)

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  1. No, the centering spring is way too stiff for my taste. Which implies that I at least had one in my hands. It's been a while, though.
  2. Even then none of the metal parts require extensive tooling. They buy the parts as a commodity and assemble them (or have them pre-assembled and wired in China, most likely).
    In other words, you have mass-produced parts with the economies of scale that this entails, plus assembly costs.
    CNC milling cannot possibly compete with that, price wise. But you still have curved grip elements that aren't a commodity, and you only need tiny numbers of them. Mass production simply is not an option.

Cough, 3D printing? :clin:

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Cough, 3D printing? :clin:

Bit rough but it works. The wood base is temporary until i can get a metal one made. 75% is 3d printed. I was going to print the hand wheels but found some for $4 each including delivery and they are metal!.

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Dscf0936_s.jpg.3d1735c9a63d4d4afe35dbc40

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[*]No, the centering spring is way too stiff for my taste. Which implies that I at least had one in my hands. It's been a while, though.[*]

Have you tried one with the spring mod?

It's very simple to do and pretty low risk.

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Bit rough but it works.

So that's why your gunnery in the Scimitar/Warrior is so good. ;)

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Have you tried one with the spring mod?

Why would I possibly want an A10 ground attack jet pilot's stick to control my tanks?

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I heard a rumor that there was going to be a playable A-10 in the next version of SB. Of course, I could be mis-remembering.

200.gif

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I recommend the mouse and keyboard; far more precise, and allows seamless access to menus, the map etc. Fight the enemy, not the interface.

Oh, and I want the Roswell UFO crewable in the next update.

Edited by FlatTax
My feature request

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