stormrider_sp

But how can you separate tanks from helicopters? Imagine a helo sim without tanks when even a sim without proper modelled tanks is absolutely out of reason. What rational nation nowadays would send tanks into battle without proper air support?

For those who can only "think" of the potential and tactics of modern attack helicopters, I recommend trying DCS BlackShark. It's a modern helo sim, high fidelity like Steel Beasts.

From my experiments, choopers only engage from 3km or less! :eek2: That's in my opinion, against a MBT is reckless behavior. People say that helos are useless because they're vulnerable to air defense. Its like saying that submarines are useless because they're vulnerable when on the surface.

No. Since Steel Beasts is focused on the ground battle, and we don´t have any air units to dispute air superiority, we take that that phase was already accomplished. Whoever won the 1st phase (Air Superiority) is the one who control the Close Air Support. Still helos operate in Steel Beasts with such reckless manner that its impossible to make any use of them other than targets. My question is: Today, in the modern battlefield, I´m not talking about Afghanistan conflict which is 100% assymetric, until where is it valid to disconnect the ground struggle with the air capabilities (Close Air Support). I´m not including the listed scenario because neither helicopters nor attack planes operate as they were designed to. More than that, even brazilian prop attack planes (Super Tucanos) would do equal as modern F-18s in such role and environment with the difference of being a lot cheaper!

In other words, governments wasted money on attack helicopters cause they are useless?

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I'm afraid the most esoteric thing there is in Steel Beasts IS the M1A2 SEP. Let's face, we'll never have it cause SSnake hates it!

Am I the only one who´ve read Ed Macy´ series?

It is(was) a pretty good infantry simulator. Yep, no doubt! But then someone had the bright idea of including playable vehicles. Its like flying Helicopters in Steel Beasts for example! Or tanks in DCS-A10C.

it believed by int sources via radio intercepts and humint that top tier taliban operates them. as stated before the threat of a working manpad is indeed bery high specially in afghanistan or any c. insurgency ops when cas mean intimate support. flying "high" (1000ft) just to avoid small arms fire puts u right into manpads optimun envelope. that in my view ia a high threat.

The problem with the Apache or any heavy attack helo is not its vulnerability to enemy fire. It crawls as low as 20ft and can engage at ranges in excess of 8km. Also, modern AHs are equipped with state-of-art defensive suites, designed to operate in a coventional warfare scenario. The thing is that they are maintenance hungry machines. If I remember it right for every flying hour there is an 8 hour maintanence rate. Apaches were brought down in Afghanistan and Iraq because they´re fighting a war they werent meant to. "One should never drive a tank into a city!" They were supposed to operate as stated before, in the conventional warfare scenario, seeking and hunting tanks. Its notable to mention that they´re main weapon is obviously ATGMs. British Apaches had to operate in Helmand under heavy restriction due to the threat of working shoulder launched sams. The same is not true to the Americans who are very familiarized and have many to spare. The british army, also, in order to comply with the heavy demand on replacement parts, had to canninbalize other aircrafts back home during some time. In Iraq, its well known that Iran, since the beginning, have been supplying and training rebels on the use of these shoulder launched sams, which can be devastating even to modern fast movers. How many Apaches were brought down during the first Gulf War? Its also well known that they were the first platform in, hitting the first targets of the war: Radars, openning a safe route for F117A and other Attack Jets.

Will you convert them for me? I would like to have the Gulf War Quadrants: What resolution and format do you need to convert them?

Today we look back and dont give it credit, but do you remember how it was back then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBpqNtwkGg0 cheers

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Look guys, Im not trying to create a discussion nor anything like that, but I´m know what its like to create maps. Steel Beasts maps dont look that complex by any chance btw; not like Arma2 for example where one has to do it using poor buggy tools, and needs to manage Sat maps/Masks, Clutters, Heightmaps, Lightning maps and textures and so on. It took me 3 months to load it up ingame and start playing with objects. Im not saying its not time demanding, it is, but its not that difficult and no chance it would take 3 years! BTW, good resolution heightmaps can easily and freely be found now a days, like ASTER, USGS and so on. There are also free GIS programs which can convert, crop and modify digital elevation maps.

i imagine that the producers wouldnt reply that to their military customers tho. dont get me wrong, i love this sim. it one of those legends that survives time. but there are a few things that i trully dont understand, at least from the customer point of view. its like skining a leo2e to pretend its a m1a2. what makes other tanks more interesting than these ones? nothing really but if we could build our own real maps the entire community will benefit with thousand more maps and mods. take a look at the fsx and xplane community contributing to their games. arma2 is another example. its pretty obvious that esim is overloaded with work. half a decade past by and were still waiting for a m1a2! maybe if we could help improving our sim then everybody will be happy. dont get me wrong sir im on your side all the way and i appreciate all the effort which was put on our pe version. cheers

Any chance we´ll be able someday to import height maps with our "cheap" PE version?

I´ve tried using it, but could only control its horizontal moviment. Couldnt find any documentation on that tho. How to use the fifty cal? cheers

This is what AHs look like.

Thanks for those who helped answering the question proposed. Grenny, if you want to know more about the capabilities of AHs, I would recommend 2 books: Hellfire and Apache, written by Ed Macy. Those 2 books take place in Afghanistan doing a role that Attack Helos were not designed to: Counter Insurgency. Despite that, there´re plenty of information regarding the actual system and its real employment.

I´ve read somewhere that the target´s max speed that MBTs main gun can engage is somewhere around 65mph. Thats basically enganging a hovering helo! Any other than that case, tanks must rely on their missiles and there is where flares and jammers and evasive actions take place. I´m pretty aware that Steel Beasts is supposed to simulate tanks, I remember back in the days of Steel Beasts 1, where the producers used to say exactly the same thing when users requested air support. But they changed their mind, they had to, specially and probably when they were trying to sell their product to the militaries, and most likely, the militaries replied that Air units are an INTEGRAL part of the modern battlefield. Here I´m not making any complains nor anything, nor do I want an advanced AH model. I´m a rotorhead myself, but even rotorheads are/were ground troops too! Otherwise, choppers would belong to the Air Force! Instead, I´m asking how can I make them useful ingame, as they were meant to be; support units on station, just like artillery for example. These would give another level of immersion to my missions, cause in fact, its the mission designers job to balance his mission. In real life, one single Apache Longbow can annihilate 4 tank platoons in on salvo without even being seen or heard. We all know that. But what if that is exactly the mission designer´s intent?

I was messing around with CAS a few days ago, and I´ve noticed how ineffective AH are ingame. I tried ambushing T-80s downrange, something like 3 to 4km away, but my chopper (can make a formation dont know why) always got busted. I tried some bop up attacks, hiding behing cover (trees), then popping up just long enough to launch, but surprisingly I always got blown out by missiles launched by the tanks before my chooper could launch. I didnt see not even flares being thrown out in defense, nor any evasise action. Btw, from 3km and behind cover and from behind, how could my helo be spotted and engaged before he did so? Does anybody have any effective tactic to use CAS ingame? Is it possible to make units invisible to enemies or selected ai units? cheers

I would like to know this too! Also, how to call my gunner to cease fire or stop enganging the current target without calling a Hold Fire?

as far as i remember the rumors, ssnake should be announcing something this month. maybe its our challenger 2 or the heavy waited m1a2. hopefuly!

One thing I really miss is to be able to save my mission planning. I usually spend a lot of time reading the terrain and carefuly planning every move, then I play, get killed and have to start it all over again! :decu: