Damian90

During MSPO 2022 in Kielce, Poland, I talked with GDLS and US Army representatives, all 250 M1A2SEPv3's for Poland will be new builds, not older tanks upgraded. GDLS still have capability to build new tanks. This was Polish Army requirement, that all these tanks will be 100% brand new, which I also confirmed with spokesman of Armaments Agency responsible for procurement with Land Forces Inspectorate.

M1A1's in long term storage are mostly empty shells, that either way will need refurbishment, overhaul and at least partial modernization before they can be fielded by any army out there that might buy them. Poland procured 116 M1A1FEP tanks with SCWS (Stabilized Commander Weapon Station) with AIDATS (Abrams Integrated Display And Targeting System) with slew-to-cue and RTS thermal sight with 3x, 6x and 9x magnification. So this works like CITV and gives commander hunter killer capability. These tanks also have BMS terminal and will use Sitaware BMS which was choosen for Polish Army M1 tanks. Poland also procured 250 new build M1A2SEPv3 tanks. In future it is planned to upgrade these 116 M1A1FEP tanks to M1A2SEPv3 standard. Polish Army also plans to procure APS for M1 tanks, probably Trophy HV. Deliveries of M1 tanks for Polish Army looks like this: 2023-2024 - 116 M1A1FEP. 2024/2025-2026 - 250 M1A2SEPv3.

President Biden was rather open about that, no M1's for Ukraine. M1 KE protection was ok when it was fielded. M1IP and M1A1 protection levels for both turret and hull front were improved, by how much? I don't know, but in my opinion it was around ~500-600mm vs KE +/- so just like in SBProPe. Majority of M1A1's were upgraded with Heavy Armor Package (HAP), either being upgraded to M1A1HA standard, or M1A1AIMv1 or M1A1AIMv2/M1A1SA. However in 2010 or 2011, Heavy Armor Package was replaced by Next Generation Armor Package (NGAP), we can recognize it by letter after serial number on turret side. Heavy Armor Package is marked with letter U, Next Generation Armor Package is marked with letter M. So from 2010/2011 onwards M1A1SA's and M1A2SEPv2's received 1st generation NGAP, while from 2018 onwards, M1A2SEPv3's have 2nd generation NGAP. All M1 tanks going through major overhauls receive new armor package. This is something to be confirmed this year when Polish Army will receive it's M1A1FEP's, however we know that after overhaul process, these will not be M1A1FEP's but, something we can call M1A1PL, and these might receive new armor package as well as other modifications to meet Polish Army requirements.

The only semi reliable source on Leopard 2 B tech and C tech armor protection, are some documents found in British archives, from British tests of Leopard 2. However I have only fragments of these documents that were posted in the internet.

And again to what made up values? Ballisticians in War and Peace volume 3 gives some information. Primary informations is, both M1IP and M1A1 got improved armor over basic M1. Both M1IP and M1A1 received something called KE Backpacks. Another provided information is that M1A2 have 35% better protection vs KE and 25% better protection vs CE for it's front hull armor over basic M1A1.

Eh, it all depends on what type of armor specific western tank uses. Up untill late 80's all Leopard 2, Leopard 2A1/A2/A3/A4 used B tech armor. Around 1986-1988 it was replaced by C tech armor and last batch of Leopard 2A4's is said to use D tech armor, altough this is not certain if it means main armor upgrade + new side skirts or only new side skirts.

https://www.gov.pl/web/obrona-narodowa/podpisanie-umowy-na-dodatkowe-116-abramsow-dla-wojska-polskiego Tommorow Polish MoD will sign procurement contract for 116 M1A1FEP tanks and support equipment. This year we should also have first contract for series production of Borsuk IFV.

@Ssnake I found interesting patent document. https://www.fips.ru/ofpstorage/Doc/IZPM/RUNWC1/000/000/002/781/472/ИЗ-02781472-00001/document.pdf It says that 30mm 2A42 autocannon have problems firing 3UBR8 APDS (and presumably also newer 3UBR11 APFSDS?), it is caused by interference of muzzle break with round (sabot issue?), causing drastic increase in projectiles spread, that is around 1m or more at 100m. Solution found was to bore out muzzle break by 1-2mm, then projectiles spread increases to acceptable levels. However it is not known if this modification is widespread. In Ukraine it seems that BMP-2's and BMD-2's use mostly 3UBR6 APBC. These problems are not present with 2A72 30mm autocannon because it lacks muzzle break.

Leopard 2's will stay in service untill enough K2PL's won't be procured, after that, all Leopard 2's will be withdrawn from active service. As for Abrams, currently we lease 28 M1A2SEPv2's from US Army for training purposes, on order are 116 refurbished M1A1SA's and 250 brand new M1A2SEPv3's, in future more might be ordered. M1A1SA's are planned to be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3 standard at some point in future.

Actually we ordered 180 K2's, and with Korea we are developing K2PL which we plan to procure around 820 so in total there will be 1000 K2 and K2PL tanks in Polish Army as per current MoD plans.

So, there are still some T-72's used by Polish Army, not all were sent to Ukraine. Now the questions is, how many we really had? Polish MoD really like to make everything a secret.

Tumak-22 excercises.

Polish tank crews with M1A2SEPv2's. Borsuk IFV during state trails.

GDLS finally presents AbramsX technology demonstrator.

Hyundai Rotem models of K2PL, and based on it AEV and ARV, that were sent to KIPO (Korean Intelectual Property Office).

Right now work is done to start producing our new FFG's within "Miecznik" ("Swordfish") programme. SSK programme codenamed "Orka" ("Orca") is ongoing, Navy is quiet about it, but as far as I heard, something is going on.

Ok, an update, because this is huge! Informations I will provide below, is from Armaments Agency spokesman Col. Krzysztof Płatek. Polish MoD plans: MBT's: - 116 M1A1SA to be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3. - 250 new built M1A2SEPv3. - 180 K2 to be upgraded to K2PL. - 820 K2PL produced in RoK and Poland. - K3PL a future MBT developed in cooperation between Poland and Republic of Korea. - T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's will be completely withdrawn from service. IFV's: - 1000-1400 Borsuk IFV. - Heavy IFV based on AS21 Redback, total numbers to be procured unknown at this moment. 155mm SPH's: - 144 AHS Krab. - 48 K9A1 to be upgraded in future to K9PL. - 642 K9PL based on K9A2. - Codevelopment between Poland and Republic of Korea for next generation 155mm SPH. MLRS: - Polish MoD is interested in K239 Chunmoo to supplement procurement of M142 HIMARS and WR-40 Langusta-2.

Phase 1 = ~180 K2's from Republic of Korea. Phase 2 = probably ~400 K2PL's. This is probably the plan. It is also officialy confirmed by MoD, all T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's will be withdrawn from service, replaced by 366 M1A2SEPv3's (116 upgraded M1A1SA's and 250 new built M1A2SEPv3's) and 580 K2/K2PL. Also worth to mention, MoD might procure some additional M1's in future if there will be such need. In simple words. T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's are going out, and we stay only with M1A2SEPv3's and K2/K2PL's.

First M1A2SEPv2's for Polish Army traning center for crew delivered. Second important information, MoD said, that at some point, 116 M1A1SA's we bought, will be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3 standard. Photos are by Z Obiektywem Obok Munduru team.

First M1, from batch of 28 leased by US to Poland for training of our tank crews had been seen recently in Poland. These are M1A2SEPv2's.

https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2022-07-14/mariusz-blaszczak-w-programie-gosc-wydarzen/?ref=aside_najnowsze Minister of Defence, Vice Prime Minister Mariusz Błaszczak, just confirmed that Poland and USA agreed that US will provide Poland with additional older M1's (variant unknown yet) besides 250 M1A2SEPv3's we bought. How many of these additional M1's will be provided remain to be seen.

Currently standard for M1A2SEPv2's and M1A2SEPv3's (and in future M1A2SEPv4's) is CROWS-LP, so RWS stays on tank, just in different lower profile variant.

PGZ and Honeywell signed memorandum to create service and logistic centers in Poland for Honeywell products, including AGT1500 gas turbines for M1A2SEPv3's.

Polish 155mm Krab SPH's were provided to Ukrainian Army, 18 SPH's + C2 and support vehicles. It seems they are very liked by Ukrainian Army, so liked that Ukrainians ordered 50-60 more. It seems that Poland will use in future not one, but two modern IFV's. It will be domestic amphibious Borsuk, and heavier IFV. It seems that this heavier IFV will be South Korean AS21 Redback, which will be modified to use Polish made ZSSW-30 unmanned turret the same used in Borsuk IFV, probably some other modifications will be made as well. And first 70 from 300 purchased Cougar 4x4 MRAP's Polish MoD procured are already in Poland. These vehicles on avarage drived only around 200km, so they are like factory fresh. All Cougars we bought have TAK-4 suspension system. Right now first vehicles are being modified to meet Polish Army requirements and will be repainted in Polish Army camouflage scheme.

Ok, so it seems that indeed Polish Army tank fleet in future will be made from two tank types, M1A2SEPv3 and K2PL. Our MoD is having a long visit right now in Republic of Korea, talking with our Korean partners about possible technology transfers, licenses etc.