When I saw this topic from Ssnake I went to all of my buddies who play or I have at least got them to try Steelbeast. Some of these people are true rookies, and out of our little community. Try as I might, I didn't get any of them to log in here to reply to this post. Even when some of them have account here.
They all think that there is enough "gamy" stuff already and none of them was or is interested of steelbeast because or for gaming, but as a simulator. Promise of Vast number of different fire-control systems and immersion is what got them into steel-beast in first place.
None of them want's less complex version of Steelbeast. Quite opposite, all of them would love to see even more things modeled. Me included.
Has Steelbeast got too complex for them? What were their experiences. Most of them said that no, they are confortable with the sim.
Here is an example. I loaned licence to my friend who I got to play BMP-2 with me, because I was very interested and tempted to play that vehicle at the time. He had no experience of Steelbeast prior to this. He had not known that this sim even exist nor did he had any special love towards AFVs in genenal. After a month, he told me that he is confident with BMP-2 and truly so, all it took was for him to find his way to Wiki after me urgin him to go there. When he did, he discovered things at his own space and fell in love to that little AFV. I don't claim him to be especially good with that vehicle when it comes to tactics and how to use it tactically, but he knows his way around the vehicle pretty well
Another example. My dear friend Harry. Whom I actually bought Steelbeast USB stick many years ago. Has had his interest up and down with the sim. But recently as I got him to play with me on test scenario where he had entire party of units to control alone against my forces. He was cautious because of former bad experiences with infantry, and AI. However, after a while on 4.1 he was delighted of the difference compared to past and he got to actually enjoy discovering routes and tactics and I told him some tips here and there how to make best o those. And as result he pretty much annihilated me in matter of less than an hour with his rather superior understanding of tactics (He is really into that high command stuff) And now we have started to play more and more Steelbeast together and he pretty much loves it now when you don't have to fight against the sim, but you can focus on the enemy. That wasn't the case few years ago. Though, back then missions in question were probably partly to be blamed.
There are many other who I have played and tried to introduce and bring into community. Problem is... not the complexity. But rather lack of tutorials as they say it.
We do have the non secred Wiki that new guys know nothing at all. And that for them seems rather difficult to browse, because they seem to get overwhelmed with things they're not interested rather than finding that specific page dedicated to vehicle of their interest. My belief is that it would be much easier for new guys if there would be link to Wiki in in-game tutorial.
Steelbeast comes with lot of added recources that are cleverly hidden into folder that can be found from start up menu. - And this is something that I think most of new guys just don't find or know to look for. And I think... it is as well something that they complain with need to be more "accessible" I believe that this means that they'd like or find it more easily if there would be link in menu to take you to these folders.
As for the tutorials... All the guys want more tutorials. Hah, that is even true for me. It's just that there is not enough of those, and what we have are very similar on each vehicle and basically mostly just around that vehicle specific FCS instead of tactics and how to use vehicles in the steelbeast. (Though I do admid there are some tutorials that are pretty immersive and nice. Especially cv90 tutorials.)
Finally.. here are replies from 3 other guys who wrote their answers to discord as reply to Ssnakes first post on this topic. Others have replied to me by over voice during or after missions.
Steelbeasts is not a game. It just isn’t. It can be played as a game and enjoyed as a game. If it was a game I wouldn’t own it. Its attraction is its complexity and simulation. If they want to campaign it more, or make more tutorials by all means, but they should never dumb it down. Those youtuber’s that don’t know what they are doing, too bad for them. It isn’t their game
I'm always in favor of maximum realism so I would love to have more vehicles with detailed interiors and systems to the level CV9030 or Pizzaro are. There is no point in dumping the simulation down because it is not and should not be targeted at people who do not enjoy reading manuals. Study sims is such a narrow genre that it should not be limited to just to satisfy a broader audience. It is understandable from the financial point of view of course.
If struggle with something then I try to read manuals and practice rather than expecting the devs to make the game easier.
To answer your last question Lumi - tactics, although Ive finished the God of War mission recently which I repeatedly failed before. It's not a easy one :slight_smile:
I was going to say, the devs shouldn't worry about dumping down the simulation just because some users don't bother to learn how to use it. Lots of people try and play DCS without reading any manuals and make fools of themselves on Facebook and elsewhere complaining it’s too hard, but they don't make it any less complex in order to cater to them. I think the important thing is having clear and informative tutorial material available in game. I don't think it should necessarily be left to the community to teach new players how to play
Lumi - Umm... Perhaps instead a voice acted tutorial scenarios.. bit like on DCS?
Harry - Possibly, or more consise and well worded briefings for tutorials and a central place to find explanations of all vehicle systems created and curated by the devs themselves
The wiki can be of mixed use or not up to date, as not everyone is super interested in reading the actual vehicle manuals or the intricacies of exactly how the FCS functions, just how to use those functions in game and what keys to press when
That will at least help get new players into missions and hitting targets faster, without getting annoyed or intimidated by complexity. I think it should be a principle that games are easy to learn but hard to master; you should be able to get decent competence with minimal user experience but have enough depth and complexity that they have to put time in to get the best out of the situation
(All below are additions just now from Harry though all this is basically what all the others have said too. Just not as clearly and as many words.)