JustSomeGuy

Thanks. The AAR is here:

http://ulozto.net/xPBfwLJN/palava1-022716stroj-v0024-7z

(7-zip, the file hosting has "switch to english" flag in the upper right corner)

It's using DarkAngel's Palava map, should that be required for AAR recreation:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/20?p13_searchtext=Palava

It appears so. Thanks.

Ever since I saw a NZLAV-IMV survive a frontal hit from T-72B without any damage to the engine or driver, I've had my doubts about SB's damage model, but told myselves that the fault was on my side, i.e. not understanding effects of damage on real AFVs.

However, when testing today, my Ulan just survived not one, not two, but 10 subsequent hits with Konkurs! 5 from the rear, to the hull and turret, only killing the soldiers on board, commander and gunner but causing no mechanical damage whatsoever, and then 5 more head-on when approaching with "coolant leak" being the only problem!

While I could explain the latter 5 hits by the Konkurs missile being fired too close to it's target for it to activate/unlock it's warhead (but does SB simulate this?), previous 5 hits should AFAIK have blown the turret or fuel; and from the latter, direct hit to the 30mm ammo stowage should have caused an ammo detonation even if the missile's warhead was inert:

I would also guess the turret drive should have been struck by this, but it wasn't:

And I would guess that the engine would object to being hit like this, but it only caused "coolant leak".

Is this explainable by something else than either a bug in SB's damage computation concerning non-tanks or Ulan being an über-APC?

Screens from the AAR in this gallery:

http://imgur.com/a/4suzv

AAR itself is quite lenghty, for this happened after 1,5hrs of messing around, and has 23MB, but I could upload it if needed.

not knowing if I could trust the damage model in otherwise such a wonderful simulator

In addition to what Rotareng says, the Ulan folder is also not visible from the "SB Pro > skins" folder listing:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/255

But thanks for creating it, Sean.

RogueSnake79: I am slightly confused: the CV-90 english panel translations doesn't suffer the same problem as Ulan, i.e. having to replace the panel textures in the main folder instead of only in the "nation-specific skin folder", or it does and people simply don't care and replace the finnish panel labels for english globally anyway?

I am working on AČR retexture of the Ulan to make it as much ASCOD-2 as possible and:

1) I am wondering whether there are Ulan interior textures translated into English, akin the CV-90's http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/332/p13_fileid/2356 somewhere? I am unable to find any such file, but then again, I cannot even see Ulan folder in the downloads\skins folder.

2) Since I didn't find "Ulan" folder, I attempted to upload my Ulan retexture into the SB Pro skin's main folder. Is that correct?

3) Does anybody know if ASCOD 2's (Ajax etc.) headlights are really integrated into the rubber skirts, as it seems? I am considering making the "Ulan" headlights invisible and instead place headlights texture on the front rubber skirts to make it look like ASCOD 2... But I don't want for it to look dumb/unrealistic. What do you think?

Attached is the detail on real vehicles.

Would it be possible to introduce the "national camouflage" folder structure (eg. "cs", "ru", "us"...) into the "TIS" folder, as it is in "textures\Woodland", for the "textures\TIS" folder?

The reason is that there is wide variety of paintjobs and masking nets which change the TIS representation of a tank, but are nation-specific.

For example, the Czech U-2500 masking color is officially said to reduce thermal signature (as in T-72M4), but when I "apply" it to T-72M1's "woodland\cs" folder, I cannot modify the "TIS" texture, for it would reduce the TIS signature of all the T-72M1s out there, including vanilla ones.

Or the Baraccuda net: it claims to reduce 75% of thermal emissions and some CV90s might have it (swedish, for example), while CV90s of other nations might not. But given the "TIS" folder option, it's either Barracuda for all or none.

Or now, when editing the T-72M4CZ to resemble the T-72B3 by removing the CITV and doing other visual mods, there is only one TIS texture for the model, so it means turning all the T-72M4s into B3s, or doing nothing at all and being inconsistent with the "eyeball" and "TIS" textures.

Or am I wrong and the "national camouflage subfolders" could be created and used in the "textures\TIS" folder already?

Aaargh, I just realized I would need to modify the thermal signature as well, wouldn't I?

OK, I re-did this using desert camo as a basis instead of the woodland one:

This is as far as I think I could push it while unable to edit the model itself...

It has been submitted for approval in the T-72 mods/downloads section.

EDIT: http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/283/p13_fileid/2737

I would recommend first copying the original "T-72M4CZ.dds" into the "woodland\cs\" subfolder, so that the Czech Army would retain it's U-2500 NATO camo when used as a distinct faction with the editor's "Camouflage scheme" set to "cs", and only then replacing the "T-72M4CZ.dds" original in the "woodland" and "woodland\ru\" folders with my "B3-ish" texture.

So, when using Rotareng's tip, I'm finally moving onwards.

WIP 0.1:

- CITV removed

- GPS changed to Sosna-U

- skirts changed to T-72B3-like painted

- color adjusted to match B3 gray-ish green camo more (I don't like how I did it; I might have to redo that using different method)

- attempted to modify DYNA-72 ERA to resemble Kontakt-5 more by deleting it's sides, but the result is awfull - I'll have to think out another way:

Sure, see my 1st post.

I don't think that CITV hit would kill the tank, though. And if someone trully wanted to simulate the B3, the CITV would be disabled/damaged from default anyway.

Rotareneg, it somehow doesn't work for me.

In SB, it has the CITV, and in the DDS, I can see the CITV turret undeleted.

I am using Paint.NET to edit SB PRO textures, but the procedure should be the same: how do you work with the DDS alpha channel? Do you "make it transparent" using the "delete tool" so that you see the typical "checker board", or do you somehow designate rgb(0,0,0) as "transparent" and then save it that way?

Thanks

JSG

Rotareneg: awesome! That's just what I've hoped for.

Thanks a lot, I shall dedicate this weekend to retexturing your "CITV-less" M4 into a B3 :luxhello:

Hi. Since I'm sick and tired of my nation's army's (NATO member and whatnot) T-72M4CZs representing zee evil OpFor MBTs in pretty much everyone else's screenshots and scenarios, I am seriously considering making a visual mod that would turn the default T-72M4 into the T-72B3 the Russians are apparently offering in their "rent a tank for vacation!" service.

However, the B3 lacks the CITV the M4CZ has. And while most of the M4CZ could be visually modified to at least resemble the B3, M4CZ's CITV is visually HUGE. I mean this:

Soooo... Is there a way to "visually disappear" the CITV turret entirely using only textures, for example, through an alpha-channel or color of some sorts?

Pre-emptive notes:

1) such a mod shouldn't be an unfair game disadvantage ("game cheat"), because nobody's aiming for the CITV anyway and for the random shots, it would still be "physically" there. It would only be a "visual cheat" to get around the inability to add new 3D models as a user.

2) I think that the resulting visual should not look awkward, since as far as I understand the way SBPro renders textures, there should be regular tank turret top underneath the "disappeared" CITV turret

I'm just writing to confirm that the problem disappeared when I bought a newer GPU.

However, since ATi X1650 appears to be supported:

Steel Beasts Professional - Personal Edition

IBM compatible PC with the following minimum configuration:

...256(1024)MB dedicated video RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 5+ Series / ATI Radeon 9600+ (DirectX 9 compatible with shader model 3.0 or higher)

Memory Size 256MB

Features DirectX 9 and ShaderModel 3.0 support

And indeed "partially" supports the game while in "thermal" or "NVG" views, could you possibly make a note on the "GAME_INFO" page that older graphic cards may not support SB Pro although they meet the memory size and shader model requirements, and specifically note that while they might appear to work in this "glitchy" way, they are actually unsupported and too old?

Thanks

Could you find some time to script-in "AFV crews"?

So that

1) if an AFV is hit, appropriate number of "infantry" (or even "leather" civilian) models spawn next to it and try to crawl away

2) if an AFV's crew dies (upon colliding with a house, being exposed to enemy fire or whatever) but AFV survives, it could be re-crewed with such crew spawned from dead vehicle (i.e. not only by bulky ambulances which cannot be manually driven around)

3) in the vehicle context menu, there would be an "evacuate" command and when used before the vehicle would be destroyed, it's crew wouldn't be "counted as dead" in the statistics (eg. losing AFV+crew would be worse than losing AFV minus the crew)

It would add the benefits of

1) having to deal with "movement around dead tanks " (similar as around dead IFVs) "even after they're dead"

2) for the those of us obsessed with preserving/saving lives of the "soldiers" under their command, it would enable one more try to mount a rescue mission even after the AFV itself would be destroyed - and thus often left alone by the advancing force

Thanks for that. I'll consider buying older non-ATI graphics card to see if I can rule out the driver problem.

Low-detail interiors: Yes, if FCS within GPS would be simulated accurately (as is the case with the Challanger 2).

[4] T-72M4 CZ

[3] BMP-2 IFV

[2] Any Cold War T-64 variant

[1] Any Cold War M60 variant

(Numbers in brackets are indeed points, I just sorted them descending.)

Why/Rationale:

• T-72M4's FCS is easy to implement due to similarity w/ Centauro and would give SB a hi-end T-72 variant.
  
• BMP-2 because so far, it's impossible for the OpFor to crew any 30mm/rapid fire cannon platform directly; it terms of playability, it would be the same for RedFor as when BluFor got their crewable Bradleys.
  
• T-64 because it would enable conteporary Ukraine and Cold War "Proryvnyj platoons" scenarios
  
• M60 for the scenarios where even the baseline M1 is unfair to the poor OpFor and to make many scenarios with only M60-equipped BluFor playable.
  

1) Yes, NVG works ok for commander, which proves that the root cause of this problem cannot be in rendering 3D models themselves (external or interior), textures or sprites. However, NVG doesn't work when outside of the vehicle (F8) - only in F7.

2) I specifically set up night scenario so that NVG wouldn't shut down. And as I said, F7 -> working NVG, F8 -> pitch black.

3) I tried to, but it wasn't any better. But if it was a drive problem, how comes the card is able to render models, textures, thermal, NVG, sprites, everything - just "overlays" anything during the day with blackness? Couldn't it be some kind of problem with the alpha-channel of UI overlay?

So, even with Windows crash logging on, nothing appeard in the SB CrashDump folder.

I tried playing with NVG, though, and it works with both exterior and looking into interior:

When I cannot use NVG, I don't get to see anything. And FLIR doesn't work for me when outside in a mission created in the editor.

To recap this:

- I can use thermals from within GPS/F6 view normally

- I can use commander's NVG while unbuttoned

- I cannot use the day channel of the GPS

- I canot use thermals anywhere else than in GPS/F6 view

- I cannot use NVG while in the F8 view

- when I try to see something during the day, I either see pitch black screen with only the overlay symbols/graphic, or there is a tiny strip of the rendered area to the edge of the screen

- game runs smoothly unless I try "HDR Bloom"

- when using "HDR Bloom" option, game crashes

- if the game crashes, nothing gets saved to the CrashDump folder

- I do have some error logs, though

Is there any chance we could get this solved, considering what I've just recapitulated?

One possible solution would be the T-72M4 CZ.

It has a Italian designed fire control system, I cant verify this but allegedly the fire control is similar to the one in the centauro. or so I have been told.?

Yes, you're right. T-72M4CZ has FCS derived from the one on Ariete and Centauro, TURMS, which was supposed to be "universal modular tank FCS".

See local threads

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=20734 and

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=16458

However, the Army of the Czech Republic had quite high requirements on both CEP and probability of hit. This requirement was not met with initial variant of TURMS-T when shooting with the IDA practice round, though, and it seemed that either change or extensive modification of the tank's main gun would be required, which was implausible. It seems that the problem was with the original stabilization of the Soviet origin, which was unable to stabilize the main gun to the required 97% probability of hitting a NATO-standard tank target at 3000m.

With the help of Slovakian "EVPÚ" from Dubnice nad Váhom, this issue was resolved but it took 3 years and LOTS of money and meanwhile, 9/11 happened, the USA asked Czech Army to replace their soldiers in former Yugoslavia to free them for A-stan and therefore, Czech MoD lacked the money and modernized just 30 pieces, of which 20 are being run for the training purposes and remaining 10 are "Untoucheable Reserves".

(Of an interesting note, it seems that Italians kind of stole our research programme's fruits since they've sold TURMS-T to Assad and paid nothing to us for the help with making it work on a T-72...)

See http://www.army.cz/avis/publikace/zbrane_technika/modernizovany_t72.pdf for cutaway delta-diagrams and more info in Czech

and http://forum.valka.cz/topic/view/12882/CZE-T-72M4-CZ for detailed photos (even of interior and the detachable APU) and some insights.

Oh, okay, I thought there is some Bug-catching SW.

In that case, I'll try changing Windows bug-logging options and report back.

There are no *.dmp files anywhere, Ssnake: SBPRO just doesn't create/save them. The dump folder remains empty.

Even after running (anc crashing) SBPRO in the debug mode.

Even after reinstalling to 3.028.

Thanks a lot, I cannot wait to test these.

Sean: the laptop had Windows XP as well and was running on Intel MHD4500 integrated graphics.

Ssnake: I have an update on that crash -- it seems I unintentionally misled you, not being consistent in my testing. The CTDs were not caused by the "Instant action" but by enabling "HDR Bloom" instead. With that option on, I can briefly see okay render of the vehicle (or it's 3D interior) and then CTD.

With the HDR Bloom off, only the original problem occurs throughout whole SB: I can only see normally through TIS, see only narrow stripe throug GPS day channel, and see nothing but black screen while in observer mode or "3D interior" mode, but the game doesn't crash.

So it seems that somehow, I can either see the 3D objects and 3D interiors (with HDR Bloob on) but then get a CTD the next instant, or not get a crash and only be able to play through TIS.

DXdiag is attached, I also have some log files (full of "ERROR: Error creating hdr_blur4_1", "ERROR: Error creating shadow_map"), but there are no dumps anywhere on my system although I did run SB in "debug mode": the system variable your link is using, "%LOCALAPPDATA%\CrashDumps", didn't exist on my XP system, so I created both the sysvar and the folder.

However, there are no dumps in it (even after the HDR-caused crash) and there is no "Local" folder in either %appdata%, "%userprofile%\Data aplikací" (localized "%userprofile%\Appdata" folder) or "%userprofile%\AppData\".

EDIT: I tried downloading fresh 3.028, unistalling and reinstalling, but to no avail: same two problems (HDR Bloom -> render and crash, no HDR Bloom -> TIS only.) And still no dumps.

So I at least saved some of the windows error message data and application compatibility DB file attached that:

AppName: sbpropecm.exe AppVer: 3.0.2.8 ModName: sbpropecm.exe

ModVer: 3.0.2.8 Offset: 00218b5e

debugLog.zip

DxDiag.txt

23ae_appcompat.txt

Sorry for late reply, I decided this was due to integrated laptop graphics and I better change to a PC to play SB... Only it didn't help. Today, I got to make a clean OS install and it didn't help either. So, screenshots:

This is how I can see through TIS -- all good:

But when I try to turn off TIS:

Note the tiny strip on the left: that is the radiator an license plate of that Unimog. That's all I can see. But it proves my machine is somewhat capable of rendering sky, terrain, models and shadows, only in a weird way.

Another, to prove sky and effects:

When I'm not even looking through a GPS, I can only see pitch black darkness -- even switching to the "outside view editor thermals" doesn't work.

This, however, is in the Editor: when I try "Instant action", game crashes instantly after a sky render flashes through.

I have clean install of:

Windows XP Pro 32bit SP3, fresh DX 9.0c

Radeon X1650 on Catalyst 10-02 (8.593.100.0) drivers,

3,5GB RAM and Core2Duo E8400,

reinstalled SB PRO 3.0.2.5

So the HW requirements should be met.