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12Alfa

T-90 takes a TOW and wins

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581879_1703147576636634_7242757390665604

 

brfore:

12295507_1703154319969293_48024995304918

 Hit is on right side above IR device that now is falling down. Reported to have driven back to base under own power, crew ok.

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And the event.

 

The Liver Eaters and Unicorn Army (AKA the "FSA") have been using TOW-2As.

 

Edited by TankHunter

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9 hours ago, Marko said:

I wonder if it really is the same tank, as the video.

 

there's only one reported hit on a T-90 in syria, and the hit location in the video matches with what's on the image.

Edited by dejawolf

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why would that be? he wasn't within the spall cone, and the spall would have mostly emptied itself in the GPS and/or the lead/kevlar liner.

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1st :From the Angle of hit, he could have been in the "HEAT"'s way

2nd: the gunner hurriedly dismounts (=no TC telling him to stay put)

3rd: the TC is not dismounting

 

Might be wrong, but thats my conclusion.

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It's a consistent story (our brains like those, and make them up all the time), but there could be a number of other explanations (the gunner simply panicked even though the commander told him to stay put, the commander was briefly unconcious, ...). We simply don't know. Maybe, one day, we will.

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I dont think its possible for T-90 to defeat advanced western weapon systems.

 

Its very likely those are 2 different tanks.

 

Most conflicts are also fought with propaganda and lies. It could very well be such an example.

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My WAG was that the gunner panicked or was injured by over pressure, or there was a penetration. It seems unlikely there was a penetration though.

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Well if one look at both tanks it's easy to see they are the same (other reasons will cause you to think otherwise). Taking a hit and even having a crew member dismount does not cause the tank to be KIA, and it has been reported the tank was repaired and returned to service. No one was killed.

The T-90 is well protected , not as much as a Leo or M1, but still well protected.The actual blast seems to have been directed up and away from the tank (reactive armour) .

And we don't know what type of TOW was used, or if it was past "use before date", or did not strike at the optimal point for penetration.

 

So a lot of unknowns, and some knows, bottom line it survived a TOW hit.

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26 minutes ago, 12Alfa said:

Well if one look at both tanks it's easy to see they are the same (other reasons will cause you to think otherwise). Taking a hit and even having a crew member dismount does not cause the tank to be KIA, and it has been reported the tank was repaired and returned to service. No one was killed.

The T-90 is well protected , not as much as a Leo or M1, but still well protected.The actual blast seems to have been directed up and away from the tank (reactive armour) .

And we don't know what type of TOW was used, or if it was past "use before date", or did not strike at the optimal point for penetration.

 

So a lot of unknowns, and some knows, bottom line it survived a TOW hit.

 

Again, in propaganda wars. Things such as markings on tanks can be changed/modified. The video itself could be doctored to make it look like t-90 being hit by enemy , but it could just be Russians with Syrian assistance staged a video to promote T-90 tank to countries which are in market for MBT. 

 

There are absolutely NO Known facts. 

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Don't think it was staged the video would have been longer and would have shown the tank respond or withdraw.

But I agree it will be good for sales of the T-90.

Like many I considered the T-90 just to be a upgraded T-72  but the Russians lost a lot of tanks to RPG/ATGM in the Chechnya conflict

Maybe  lessons were learned.

Edited by Marko

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3 hours ago, ashdivay said:

I dont think its possible for T-90 to defeat advanced western weapon systems.

 

If the missile didn't have a tandem warhead, it is actually quite likely that the reactive armor defeated it. The question is, who was firing the missile and who equipped them with TOWs. The whole war in Syria is a giant clusterfuck, you can't really know from a few seconds of video what's going on without knowing the context in which the video was taken. Usually we never get the full context. That doesn't mean that all the videos are doctored. "Cut to purpose", sure. But in this case we have multiple accounts; the video of the attack itself, reports about the crew after the incident.

 

Check out the ANNA videos. Obviously one-sided (embedded reporting from the Syrian Army's point of view), but they actually try and source "rebel cam" footage and put it into their own videos to show certain events from multiple perspectives; propaganda - yes, definitely, but about the best you can get because it delivers context. Also, ANNA very much looks at the technical and military aspects of tanks in urban warfare, and best of all, they all have English subtitles and a very low snackbar level.

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theres a couple of videos going around showing a T90(?) in Syria defeating 2 TOWs with their jamming capabilities.Not sure what the Russians call it,but both missles just floundered off and hit the ground.tried finding it but cant.

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The Russians call it Sthora (veil), a soft-kill active defense system. It provides a second, offset IR source that is stronger than the missile beacon, and if it sends the right code the launcher will take it as the missile position reference and sends commands to return to the crosshair center, which essentially lets the missile dive into the ground.

 

I seem to remember reading that TOW-1 missiles have only one of eight possible pulse code sequences, so Shtora simply sends these in rapid succession. Later missile generations - if what I read was accurate and my memory isn't playing tricks on me -  seem to have a wider range of pulse codes that, at the time of writing, would not be defeated by Shtora.

If true, this would suggest that TOW-1 missiles are in use in Syria.

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ahhh ok,I wish I could find the videos it was pretty impresssive.wonder why the US and DE dont use such a thing?

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12 minutes ago, mpow66m said:

ahhh ok,I wish I could find the videos it was pretty impresssive.wonder why the US and DE dont use such a thing?

  1. Doesn't help against Russian laser beam rider missiles
  2. We don't expect to fight against our own missiles
  3. Helps against only a rather narrow band of threats ... but when it does, it's cool.

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The liver eaters have access to TOW-2A missiles. It is reasonable to believe that the missile used on the T-90 was a tandem warhead missile. On a related note does anyone know if previous versions of the TOW are still in use by anyone besides Iran and (maybe) Hez?

 

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4 hours ago, mpow66m said:

ahhh ok,I wish I could find the videos it was pretty impresssive.wonder why the US and DE dont use such a thing?

 

US have AN/VLQ-6, which supposed to do pretty much the same things.

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7 hours ago, mpow66m said:

ahhh ok,I wish I could find the videos it was pretty impresssive.wonder why the US and DE dont use such a thing?

Maybe its this video although the quality is very low. I couldn't say whether this is really a T-90:

 

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47 minutes ago, Reini said:

Maybe its this video although the quality is very low. I couldn't say whether this is really a T-90:

 

Particular video is in fact a  marketing video for BMP-3 and was filmed during  demonstration of "Shtora"-equipped vehicle to one of potential customers. So...

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