Apocalypse 31 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Ssnake said: Tracked Optically, Wire guided (missile). That's the name. It's actually: Tube Launched Optically Tracked Wire Guided 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted March 23, 2016 Members Share Posted March 23, 2016 You win - but the guidance of early missiles still can be defeated, which may be technically incorrect described as "jamming", but the practical result is just the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacbat Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 9 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said: I've only fired 78 live TOW missile in the last year... And how many of them were against a Sthora equipped and operating target? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin 7 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Here is another article about the TOW-2: http://www.military-today.com/missiles/tow.htm Edited March 23, 2016 by dta delta Article 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I wonder would the t-90 survive a spike or javelin hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Just now, Marko said: I wonder would the t-90 survive a spike or javelin hit. depends on where it is hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 from the FM: c: tracking and steering of the missile while in flight. as the missile flies down range, the infrared beam from the rear of the missile enters the infrared receiver on the daysight tracker, is reflected by a spinning mirror in the rear of the infrared receiver called a nutater, and strikes the infrared sensor in front of the infrared receiver. the pattern that this reflected beam makes on the sensor measures the angle of the beam and tells the MGS where the missile is. the MGS has two other sources of information on the location and attitude of the missile: the gyroscope and the traversing unit. both of these have sensors. the gyroscope measures the attitude of the missile while in flight, and the traversing unit measures how quickly and in what direction the gunner moves it. the MGS uses this information to make a very precise determination of where the missile is in relation to the gunners's aiming point. this automatically steers the missile toward that point. This process continues until the missile impacts the target. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dejawolf said: depends on where it is hit. Should have elaborated better I meant there top attack capability's Edited March 23, 2016 by Marko 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Marko said: Should have elaborated better I meant there top attack capability's the T-90 does have ERA there but the armour is thin by comparison to the rest of the turret. well, the ERA is designed to work on an angle. when you hit the bricks flat they lose a lot of their ability to reduce a penetrator. plus the roof is simply too thin to catch the residue. so in all likelyhood it will penetrate the roof. and on top of that the javelin is tandem, so it will simply negate the roof ERA. now what happends after that is entirely dependent on where on the roof you hit, and whether the vehicle is fully loaded with ammunition or not. also, not the entire roof of the vehicle is protected by ERA, so you hit the gunners hatch and it will cut through there no problem, in all likelyhood kill the gunner, possibly wound the commander, or at least knock him out, and if the crew is really unlucky, it might pass through the gunner, hit the carousel, and the turret will go flying. a hit above the center turret i dunno. javelin will definitely penetrate, but the gun breech is pretty damn thick, and also pretty damn large so it might absorb the javelin. gun will be out of action, but the tank might survive with the turret crew suffering minor or serious wounds. but in all likelyhood the overpressure is going to make them pass out and stun the tank regardless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 6 hours ago, dejawolf said: if i remember correctly, the beacon code on the newest TOWs is actually random, so it is practically unjammable. Even so , it can still be countered with APS. Some countries are even testing Microwave based interception systems. Lets see what develops, i am sure Forums will be great source of information. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankHunter Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Tacbat said: And how many of them were against a Sthora equipped and operating target? Yes, there is a reason why the Russians developed it and use it. There is also reason why the Syrians developed their own and are putting it on everything that isn't a T-90. While the TOW can't be jammed it can be spoofed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) verb (used without object), jammed, jamming. 11. to become stuck, wedged, fixed, blocked, etc.: This door jams easily. 12. to press or push, often violently, as into a confined space or against one another: They jammed into the elevator. 13. (of a machine, part, etc.) to become unworkable, as through the wedging or displacement of a part. The signal could be a part, and thous one could displace that part with a incorrect signal, thous JAMMED, just thinking out load here. Just my theory Edited March 24, 2016 by 12Alfa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 1 hour ago, ashdivay said: Even so , it can still be countered with APS. Some countries are even testing Microwave based interception systems. Lets see what develops, i am sure Forums will be great source of information. no, the problem is the power requirements to jam such a wide electromagnetic band. already shtora can only be operational for a limited time before it has to be turned off and cooled. http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3009.html specified life of 1000 hours, MBTF of 250 hours, radiation source life of 50 hours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 5 hours ago, Ssnake said: You win I'm not trying. 4 hours ago, Tacbat said: And how many of them were against a Sthora equipped and operating target? Not a single one, but 18 months of operating with the TOW system has taught me a great deal about its capabilities. I can assure you reading Wiki and watching edited YouTube videos won't do it justice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacbat Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Too bad you weren't also taught about it's vulnerabilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Tacbat said: Too bad you weren't also taught about it's vulnerabilities. I'm only trained the MILAN system, but speaking with guys who know both (TOW, MILAN) the are very similar in operations. During training you are thought about the abilities and "dis"abilities of systems and how to overcome them with different operating procedures. But sure as hell I will not talk about them on the interweb. I'd assume that Apocalipse-31 uses the same approach Edited March 23, 2016 by Grenny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 TOW FM-23-34 is freely available on the interwebs. not to mention both milan and TOW have been heavily used by mujahideen, ISIS and whatnot. https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/terrorism_and_pyrotechnics/rocketry/Anti-Armor/TOW%20Weapon%20System%20-%20FM%2023-34.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Javelin live fire test. Anybody else read/hear that the T-72 was packed with explosive materials . It was the export version probably the M or M1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovxz1_hPJKQ&feature=player_embedded Edited March 23, 2016 by Marko 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Shocked that this post has generated so many replies . Would this have happened if it were a Soviet ATGM? . I feel, and I may have this wrong, is the fact that a US system has been called into question, and that it must be defended by all means, disregarding facts and /or pictures. I by no means wanted this to be a American bashing, or lets defend the T-90 thread, merely to show that a modern tank can, and what looks like has defeated a TOW. Have we become to sensitive about our state produced wepond systems? Edited March 23, 2016 by 12Alfa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 It is rather the opposite, T-90 armor was pierced, and it's not a surprise, T-90 is nothing special, it's just T-72B with T-80U FCS and some other minor upgrades, but there were no upgrades in protection over T-72B. Besides UralVagonZavod is notorious of it's bad designing when it comes to ERA cover for their tanks, full of gaps in protection. The area where this T-90 was hit, is neither protected by ERA, and neither have enough base armor to withstand hit from TOW-2A. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 No bashing from me 12 Alfa. I am interested in there capability's and even more interested in effective counter measures ways of stopping them. I remember reading some top military theorists/generals had lost faith in the tank because of the lethality of modern RPG/ATGM's The Israelis even complained to the Russians about Hezbollah having access to RPG 29's and other modern ATGM;s such were there losses in there last incursion in to Lebanon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpow66m Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said: I'm not trying. Not a single one, but 18 months of operating with the TOW system has taught me a great deal about its capabilities. I can assure you reading Wiki and watching edited YouTube videos won't do it justice. Jamming may be a bad description,but the early ones can be ''interfered'' with to the point of ineffectiveness,dont doubt your expertise just sayin what ive heard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Damian90 said: It is rather the opposite, T-90 armor was pierced, and it's not a surprise, T-90 is nothing special, it's just T-72B with T-80U FCS and some other minor upgrades, but there were no upgrades in protection over T-72B. Besides UralVagonZavod is notorious of it's bad designing when it comes to ERA cover for their tanks, full of gaps in protection. The area where this T-90 was hit, is neither protected by ERA, and neither have enough base armor to withstand hit from TOW-2A. Can you post that pierced armour pic plz? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 When it comes to active protection against ATGM's (and also RPG's), soft-kill in general becomes more and more ineffective. This is why hard-kill systems becomes more and more popular, and this trend will stay for any forseeable future. Of course besides active protection, improvements in vehicles base armor, it's structural design, and also addon protection will be made. Quote Can you post that pierced armour pic plz? It's simpe deduction, ATGM hits are with thin base armor and no ERA protection, gunner bails out, and later they show tank, but not the side where it was hit, obviously trying to hide something. Of course you are free to believe that T-90 is indestructible, while in reality it's obsolete design, and nothing more than T-72B with some improvements... that do not include any improvements in vehicles armor protection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 So the short answer is....................................................no you can't, you can however deduct. I'll remember this for the future when in need of deductions, me, I use (as I been told ) theories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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