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Damian90

Poland Armed Forces Modernization.

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So now if someone is interested how old T-72M's look like in long term storage. ;)

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These vehicles are stored by AMW not the MoD or military. AMW or Agencja Mienia Wojskowego is goverment agency tasked with storing such vehicles or other military property and sell it eventually if not needed anymore. So yeah, you can purchase such T-72M for yourself. :P Of course there are other vehicles sold. In many cases foreign and domestic military vehicles collectors purchase them.

 

We also have mostly in summer many events related to military vehicles fans.

 

 

This is so called "Operacja Południe" (Operation South, can also be translated as Operation Noon), which is always organized July in Bielsko-Biała town. It's a pretty cool event, and if you talk with owners, there should be no problem to take a ride in one of vehicles or just get inside. ;)

 

There are several more such events in the country like event in coastal village Darłowo in July, also very cool place to spend some time and get around some military vehicles.

 

 

 

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Hi  Damian90.

Looking for information.

Do the Polish armed forces use the PT-91 as a opfor vehicle against the leo-2 on training exercises 

If so how does the PT-91 compare with the leo-2 have you spoken to any polish tankers on the subject.

 

Edited by Marko

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@Marko

No we do not use them as OPFOR but comparrision was made between our Leopard 2's (A4 and A5) and PT-91 and T-72M1.

 

In general Leopard 2's are superior in every aspect, they have better protection and survivability, better firepower, better electronics, better ergonomics, are more economic, yes Leopard 2 uses less fuel and requires less maintnance than PT-91 or T-72M1, and in general maintnance on Leopard 2 is easier, more user friendly.

 

It is not truth that T-72 class tanks are simpler than 3rd generation NATO tanks like Leopard 2, considering they have an autoloader, which means more moving components + maintnance is more difficult as vehicles are not modular like western ones, so for example sometimes to repair one component you need to disassemble half of vehicle.

 

The big problem with PT-91 is that although is uses rather good FCS (older Drawa or newer Radew), due to awfull soviet design of turret race ring and how main gun is installed in turret, despite good results of FCS itself, the main armament have awfull stabilization and accuracy. Also stabilization system itself was never replaced.

 

On the other hand PT-91 upgrade was never completed as it was planned due to 90's and early 2000's economic situation. PT-91 per original plans was to receive new welded turret, both hull glacis and turret was to receive new CAWA-2 armor, besides ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2 ERA, as well as some other new components like automatic gearbox, or stronger 1000HP engine S-1000 (right now it uses 850HP S-12U engine). With new turret also mentioned problems with stabilization system, accuracy and turret race ring would be solved.

 

However recently rumors said tha as a stop gap, PT-91's and T-72M1's that are left in service might receive some upgrades, and Bumar plant as well as OBRUM design bureau offers some upgrades, some options are said to be significant. Tough it still won't change a fact that PT-91 is just a decent upgrade of a T-72M1, and any 3rd generation NATO MBT will be better in every aspect.

 

Heck even in mobility a 55,5 metric tons heavy Leopard 2A4 or 59,9 metric tons heavy Leopard 2A5 is better than weighting 45,5 metric tons PT-91.

 

And my own personall experience, I was inside PT-91, Leopard 2A4 and Leopard 2A5, I am a short guy, just 1,75m in height, and T-72 class tanks are incredibly tight and uncomofrtable, in Leo2's I could easy get in, and get out, or move from each crew member position (the only thing I dislike in Leopard 2 when it comes to that is that loader is isolated from the rest of crew, by that huge spent stub cases basket mounted to the main gun, and a wire mesh guard of gunner and commander, IMHO in emergency this can be very problematic and tanks like M1, Challenger 1/2 or Merkava are better as crew can help injured loader inside vehicle, without necessity to leave safe interior), in a PT-91 I had initial problem to get inside by finding suitable space for my legs at gunner position, after that moving to commander position was easier, the most tight and difficult is driver position, and if the main gun is over the hatch, it's immposible to get in or out, it is also very difficult to move over autoloader from drivers position in to the turret, especially if rest of crew forgets about you and disembark without rotating turret to a more proper position earlier.

 

T tanks also spit oil from exhaust like crazy, this is why during parades it's better to position yourself at the opposite side of road, to not get your clothes dirty in engine oil. :P

 

Their engines also smoke a lot, no wonder, these engines are still pretty much a modified V-2 diesel from 1937. :P

Edited by Damian90

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Thanks for the comprehensive reply Damien.

I know what you mean about the lack of leg room  I have been inside a T-72 as well.

With the hatch down it would be incredible claustrophobic and  if you loose your main sight your screwed.

Maybe its the tank enthusiast in me but I still like the shape of the tank.:D

 

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Tough we do not see Leopard 2's as perfect either. There are few areas where our military is not very happy.

 

1. Primary sight placement, in Leopard 2A4 is considered as creating significant weak zone in turret front protection, in A5 it is considered as improved but not perfect. Our tank crews that had opportunity to familiar themselfs with other NATO MBT's say that M1A1/A2 or Challenger 2 in this regard are superior. The Leo2 tanker I talked with said that in general after he familirized himself with M1, he is certain M1 have better armor protection.

 

2. Ammunition storage, again turret magazine is ok, but hull one means that Leo2 can end burning with turret flying just like T tank.

 

3. The issue with suspension upgrades, it seems we can't upgrade our Leopard 2A4 during modernization to Leopard 2PL with improved front hull protection, because it means expensive suspension upgrade that involves cutting and welding again area where suspension is attached, for some unknown to me and bizzare reason, this is why Leopard 2PL at least now will not have proper front hull upgrade.

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Short information.

15th August we celebrate Armed Forces Day with great parade and other events.

 

This years parade will also most likely be large, so I will be there with a group of friends, and of course gonna make some photos, maybe even videos.

Also important thing to note, and it was confirmed by our military, that not only Polish Armed Forces will participate, but also our allies.

 

So there is a big change we gonna se M1A2SEPv2's, M2A3's and M109A6's in Warsaw this year. Of course it's still maybe, the exact list of vehicles participating and their numbers will be eleased in coming days, hopefully sooner than later.

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And some photo.

 

Leopard 2A4's and Leopard 2A5's from 10th and 34th Armored Cavalry Brigades, 11th Armored Cavalry Division were loaded yesterday and started their journey to capital city of Warsaw. There will be 14 tanks each at the parade + 2-4 tanks at static display.

 

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Also wheeled IFV's Rosomak from 17th Mechanized Brigade, 11th Armored Cavalry Division, are driving through highway to the capital city.

 

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5 hours ago, Azure Lion said:

Thank you!

 

For this entire post. Just...

 

Thank you!


No prob, with my friends we gonna try to make whole photo and video archive and will share it here, stay tuned, 15th August will be great, hopefully. :)

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Some more good stuff being prepped for parade, including new 155mm AHS Krab self propelled howitzers on new chassis. :D

 

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Edited by Damian90

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US Army have it's vehicles sended to Warsaw, they will participate in parade.

 

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Edited by Damian90

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I don't think that my car has ever been as clean as these Leopards are. ;) I will be there tomorrow and will take some pictures. It's a pity through that this year we won't have a chance to get in the AFVs like last year as far as I know. 

Edited by Lusik

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Yes, I can watch the video clips there. Thanks!

 

Kind of surreal seeing Abrams parading with T-tanks. ^_^

Edited by Lt DeFault
changed wording

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