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SB Pro PE 4.0 - Discussion thread

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2 hours ago, Damian90 said:

Yeah, I was very surprised how good M60A3 FCS is, relatively to it's age and how advanced vehicle in general is. I even scored better in M60A3 than in much more modern Challenger 2. :P

 

The M60 is/was a tremendous gun platform! Back in the early 80's the US Army would routinely win the top gun competition in Grafenwoher. My last year (just before the A3's were replaced by M1a1's) it was the underdog against Germany's new Leopards & everyone was surprised when the M60 came out on top once again. 

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11 minutes ago, Longknife said:

 

The M60 is/was a tremendous gun platform! Back in the early 80's the US Army would routinely win the top gun competition in Grafenwoher. My last year (just before the A3's were replaced by M1a1's) it was the underdog against Germany's new Leopards & everyone was surprised when the M60 came out on top once again. 

 

Aye, it's an awesome piece of machinery. We actually had one, in fantastic condition (pretty much combat capable), it's M60A1 in Armored Vehicles Museum in Poznan, we also have there M48A5 and M88 (or M88A1, dunno truth to be told).

 

 

I really need to visit that museum ASAP. ;)

Edited by Damian90

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2 hours ago, Longknife said:

 

The M60 is/was a tremendous gun platform! Back in the early 80's the US Army would routinely win the top gun competition in Grafenwoher. My last year (just before the A3's were replaced by M1a1's) it was the underdog against Germany's new Leopards & everyone was surprised when the M60 came out on top once again. 

Well against other tanks it was not all that great as per the link below. However the L7 was a super British wpn system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Army_Trophy

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17 minutes ago, 12Alfa said:

Well against other tanks it was not all that great as per the link below. However the L7 was a super British wpn system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Army_Trophy

 

The thing is that Americans never used L7. ;)

 

It's a popular myth and misconception... and I would say even a certain type of lie that Americans purchased license for L7.

 

The British L7 and American M68 are completely different guns, that are no interchangeable.

 

The M68 is a series manufactured version of the US prototype gun the T254.

 

However both L7 and M68 have exactly the same ballistics and interchangeable ammunition (well at least untill M900 was fielded and this one can only be used in M68A1 mounted in M1/M1IP and M68A2 used in M1128 MGS), what is also interesting, due to agreements between US and UK, L7 and M68 were designed such way, their barrels were interchangeable.

 

But both guns have completely different breech, recoil system, trunions, cradle and so on.

 

105mm-m68-5.jpg

105mm-m68.jpg

105mm-m68-7.jpg

 

This is M68.

 

leopard-1-4-kl.jpg

kanone_105mm.jpg

 

And this is L7, differences in design are obvious. ;)

 

Also one interesting thing, originally M68 would use exactly the same symetrical bore evacuator as T254, however this caused problems when gun was at maximum depression, bore evacuator could be damaged during guns recoil if it would hit something, so Americans used British designed bore evacuator that is assymetric, so bore evacuators are pretty much the same on L7 and M68.

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1 hour ago, 12Alfa said:

Well against other tanks it was not all that great as per the link below. However the L7 was a super British wpn system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Army_Trophy

 

1985 is the year I am thinking. Either that's Canadian propaganda or I am miss remembering it. Teach me to post off memory instead of GTSing it :$

Then again them Canuks are some sneaky bastages eh ;)

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On 8/13/2016 at 8:36 AM, Tango29 said:

Ummm...guess I'd better 'fess up here. Without putting too fine a point on it, my original tank, on which I trained as an officer cadet decades ago, was the Centurion 5. It had the same gun-sight fitted as provided for the Sho't Kal in SB, along with the .50 cal HMG ranging gun. Although the Sho't Kal doesn't have the ranging gun fitted (Israeli decision, apparently), the sight graticle pattern is unchanged from what I used. So I still have a pretty good idea of how to use the sight, even after 48 years (which surprises the hell out of me, quite frankly!). But it all came back pretty quickly: talk about a really neat flashback! :)

 

That is amazing!  Well done sir.

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5 hours ago, Damian90 said:

 

The thing is that Americans never used L7. ;)

 

It's a popular myth and misconception... and I would say even a certain type of lie that Americans purchased license for L7.

 

The British L7 and American M68 are completely different guns, that are no interchangeable.

 

The M68 is a series manufactured version of the US prototype gun the T254.

 

However both L7 and M68 have exactly the same ballistics and interchangeable ammunition (well at least untill M900 was fielded and this one can only be used in M68A1 mounted in M1/M1IP and M68A2 used in M1128 MGS), what is also interesting, due to agreements between US and UK, L7 and M68 were designed such way, their barrels were interchangeable.

 

But both guns have completely different breech, recoil system, trunions, cradle and so on.

 

105mm-m68-5.jpg

105mm-m68.jpg

105mm-m68-7.jpg

 

This is M68.

 

leopard-1-4-kl.jpg

kanone_105mm.jpg

 

And this is L7, differences in design are obvious. ;)

 

Also one interesting thing, originally M68 would use exactly the same symetrical bore evacuator as T254, however this caused problems when gun was at maximum depression, bore evacuator could be damaged during guns recoil if it would hit something, so Americans used British designed bore evacuator that is assymetric, so bore evacuators are pretty much the same on L7 and M68.

Well. the thing is, I never stated it was ????

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8 hours ago, 12Alfa said:

Well. the thing is, I never stated it was ????

 

Oh sorry, I misunderstood then. ;)

 

Still it's usefull information for many I hope.

Edited by Damian90

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On 8/17/2016 at 5:48 PM, Vikingo said:

 

welcome Koen! Glad is working there too. If you suffer some performance loss you can low the AntiAliasing settings and terrain details B|  Here didn't play really big battles so those "final" settings are working super fine

I just purchased 4.0 and will be trying out your settings this weekend.  TY for taking the "trial and error" out of the setting process.

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Congrats on your purchase, I really doubt you will regret it! There is just so much extra with this installment. A lot of little details that makes one giggle like a giddy little school girl that is about to let her inner demon of death and destruction out.

Edited by Azure Lion

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11 minutes ago, Azure Lion said:

A lot of little details that makes one giggle like a giddy little school girl that is about to let her inner demon of death and destruction out.

 

Well spoken! I thought it was just me:D

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5 hours ago, Retro said:

It is :)

L7 and M68 are not the same Guns  is a Fact, M60 never wins a NATO Tank Challeng is the next.....

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Does anyone know the armor protection values for the AMV XA-360? It is ridiculously strong. I've been doing some tests and need multiple hits from even the m829a3 @ 1200 meters! When I switch to HEAT it's even worse! Besides the TC always loads sabot for this monster! The French would be delighted if their Leclerc had this much protection :-) More info would be nice.

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7 minutes ago, munckmb said:

Does anyone know the armor protection values for the AMV XA-360? It is ridiculously strong. I've been doing some tests and need multiple hits from even the m829a3 @ 1200 meters! When I switch to HEAT it's even worse! Besides the TC always loads sabot for this monster! The French would be delighted if their Leclerc had this much protection :-) More info would be nice.

 

From two sources thus far:

Seems to have protection from 30mm APFSDS rounds at its frontal arc.

At least for the Patria which I believe is for the XA-360 and 361.

 

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/

 

http://www.armyrecognition.com/finland_finnish_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_uk/amv_patria_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_technical_data_sheet_description_information_pictures_photos_uk.html

 

There are some aluminum hull variants that I believe have a different designation of XC-360, for places like Poland, that only have protection againts 14.5mm rounds at its frontal arc.

 

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3441.html

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6 minutes ago, Azure Lion said:

 

From two sources thus far:

Seems to have protection from 30mm APFSDS rounds at its frontal arc.

At least for the Patria which I believe is for the XA-360 and 361.

 

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/

 

http://www.armyrecognition.com/finland_finnish_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_uk/amv_patria_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_technical_data_sheet_description_information_pictures_photos_uk.html

 

There are some aluminum hull variants that I believe have a different designation of XC-360, for places like Poland, that only have protection againts 14.5mm rounds at its frontal arc.

 

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3441.html

I've seen those sources, I was hoping for the Steel Beasts armor drawing :-) Besides, it doesn't really explain why it is such a hard vehicle to kill. Even with modern tank ammo.

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4 hours ago, Barkhorn1x said:

I just purchased 4.0 and will be trying out your settings this weekend.  TY for taking the "trial and error" out of the setting process.

 

Congrats for 4.0 Barkhorn1x !! I'm sure you will enjoy the sim, is amazing. Can't stop playing here since launch. The settings are a success also, yesterday night I build a giant battle and all was fine with them B| Good luck there & Thanks for try them!

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5 hours ago, Azure Lion said:

Congrats on your purchase, I really doubt you will regret it! There is just so much extra with this installment. A lot of little details that makes one giggle like a giddy little school girl that is about to let her inner demon of death and destruction out.

Haa!! :)

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1 hour ago, Vikingo said:

 

Congrats for 4.0 Barkhorn1x !! I'm sure you will enjoy the sim, is amazing. Can't stop playing here since launch. The settings are a success also, yesterday night I build a giant battle and all was fine with them B| Good luck there & Thanks for try them!

TY and I will let you know how the settings turn out.

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22 minutes ago, Barkhorn1x said:

TY and I will let you know how the settings turn out.

 

great! Will be right here or... playing SB B|

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3 hours ago, munckmb said:

Besides, it doesn't really explain why it is such a hard vehicle to kill.

 

I suspect that it has more to do with the "post penetration" vulnerability than with the armor resistance as such. We have certain internal rules in place to make the results somewhat comparable among different vehicles of a similar class - which may, in this specific case, yield an extraordinary (und undeserved) survivability.

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On 8/18/2016 at 9:24 AM, Damian90 said:

Yeah, I was very surprised how good M60A3 FCS is, relatively to it's age and how advanced vehicle in general is. I even scored better in M60A3 than in much more modern Challenger 2. :P

 

ikr 

 

its old on the outside, but on the inside its systems make it comparable to that of the abrams or other 3rd generation tanks. Better thermals with a FCS almost on par with the M1A1.

while it is good at the end of the day I find it irritating the Gunner doesnt have thier own laser display preview ( only commander position) and that the M1A1's sight  leading calculations seem to be better.

 

though a part of me also would like to see a M60A1 Rise/Passive, total retro, with mechanical computing and coincidence range finding. T55 and T62 could use a older opponent ;)

 

 

 

Edited by Kev2go

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i59921z.png

 

Looking at the nice pic I took the other day of my T-72 B| I wonder how can I "order" the commander to take that full unbuttoned posture? 99% of the time he is at the "middle" posture (I know for better cover) I think I only see once going full unbuttoned like that. Is random? Is related to tactics/formations/routes/enemy presence? I know I can hit the key and while I'm at cockpit view go full unbuttoned but at soon I hit the "F8 observer/external view" the commander shows at the other position with any delay (more hidden). I ask because it looks so nice that way ^_^  Thanks!

Edited by Vikingo

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Well, in real life and about 95% of the time, crew commanders stay down in the hatch/turret. Two reasons: first, it helps to keep you from being shot or hit by artillery; and second, if the vehicle rolls over for whatever reason (and it happens, usually without warning) it helps to keep you inside the vehicle and not crushed to death as it rolls over you. Not a pleasant way to die, especially if it is mostly preventable. 

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