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SB Pro PE 4.0 - Discussion thread

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2 hours ago, Volcano said:

...

 

Because its the AI, and it looks stupid when every vehicle on the battlefield has a commander riding around completely careless (or apparently clueless) to the dangers.

 

So, rather than frustrate the user why the commander is at full height unbuttoned riding around as if on Red Square parade with bullets flying and artillery exploding all around, he stays low and safe. Otherwise there would be plenty of bug reports that "the AI commander is stupid riding around at maximum height all the time while enemy players shoot them with coax"....

That's pretty much it, in a nut shell. End of story. :P

 

 

Thanks Volcano for the clear explanation. So I assume that the "red square parade riding" ^_^  is mostly random or the AI use it only when the area "feels secure" or... (later) I understand that in MP you can select and risk your head or not for more visual.  Sad in SP you can't manually select the high ride and press F8 to look it cos is not a "real external view" -observer- and the AI take command of the unit and commander take the more secure stance. Yesterday happens that I was with a Marder, I dismount and hunt a T-72 using the troops with Milan (so intense and great) I hit once and wait to reload, I was very well hidden and I notice the AI of the T-72 start to "hunt me" making super slow movements (I think I hear like the engine going off and on) Then for my happiness the commander go full parade riding and I thought "have to be the AI trying to have a better look of the situation", if that is true I'm really impressed with the detail there! I was enjoying the view but parade time was over and I send another Milan and no more commander saying "hola!!" xD Then I feel bad for kill the feature I like (since 4.0 I mostly play inside T-72+BMP-2) but well I left the feelings for my next therapy session :D    

Edited by Vikingo

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1 hour ago, Maj.Hans said:

I'll expand upon Volcano's comments regarding KE vs HEAT for those not familiar, and do so in very broad terms.

 

[.....]

 

On the other hand, the DM33 PELE round was developed as an alternative to explosive rounds entirely.  It is a long rod penetrator modified to easily break apart into a shower of fragments when used against light armor.  It offers the high muzzle velocity of a Sabot to make scoring a hit easier, but delivers the knockout punch you need against light armor.

 

Amazing explanation! Really enjoy the reading. Thanks! 

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Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it seems to be the local 'kick things around' thread, so I felt it the best place to start. Please let me know if it isn't.
I'm former AL Natl Guard ('01-'08; OIF1) 95/31B, who never got to play with the big toys; I was too late for the Commando and too early for the Guardian. I've known about Steel Beasts for a while now, and have finally decided to take the plunge. I was happy that the new version had released as I was getting ready to buy, but I'm seeing posts about low framerates and some other graphics problems; so, I thought it would be prudent to ask if my computer (its pretty old) could handle the game before I purchase it. I'm planning on building new box by Christmas, so I'll buy then if I don't buy now.
My comp's specs are:
AMD Athlon II Quad-core 620 (2.1 GHz)
8 GB RAM
Win 7 64-bit Home
AMD R9 200 (7970) 3GB Ram

Thanks, and hope to see you on the battlefield soon...

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1 hour ago, Vikingo said:

 

Thanks Volcano for the clear explanation. So I assume that the "red square parade riding" ^_^  is mostly random or the AI use it only when the area "feels secure" or... (later) I understand that in MP you can select and risk your head or not for more visual.  Sad in SP you can't manually select the high ride and press F8 to look it cos is not a "real external view" -observer- and the AI take command of the unit and commander take the more secure stance. Yesterday happens that I was with a Marder, I dismount and hunt a T-72 using the troops with Milan (so intense and great) I hit once and wait to reload, I was very well hidden and I notice the AI of the T-72 start to "hunt me" making super slow movements (I think I hear like the engine going off and on) Then for my happiness the commander go full parade riding and I thought "have to be the AI trying to have a better look of the situation", if that is true I'm really impressed with the detail there! I was enjoying the view but parade time was over and I send another Milan and no more commander saying "hola!!" xD Then I feel bad for kill the feature I like (since 4.0 I mostly play inside T-72+BMP-2) but well I left the feelings for my next therapy session :D    

 

The AI may do it for various reasons right now (as you say, perhaps if it feels very safe - I am not entirely sure), but mostly because it is using the overhead weapon. In the case of the latter, it is known that the T-72 commander will fire his HMG while facing over the front - this is on the 'to-do list". ;)

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Volcano said:

 

The AI may do it for various reasons right now (as you say, if it feels very safe), but mostly because it is using the overhead weapon. In the case of the latter, it is known that the T-72 commander will fire his HMG while facing over the front - this is on the 'to-do list". ;)

 

 

 

Now we are understanding better each other (AI & Me) ^_^ Thanks for help with that! Oooohhhh! NSVT to the front with the mighty commander firing??!! How I didn't think in that "to-do" O.o Outstanding! B| 

Edited by Vikingo

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5 hours ago, Volcano said:

 

Well, if you can produce a screenshot of an XA-360 taking M829A3 rounds without suffering damage then we would be interested to see it (and I am not talking about the third round to pass laterally through the engine compartment after the vehicle has 10+ component damage already listed).

 

This goes back to the whole ridiculous idea where people think that KE should kill anything with one shot. There is a pro/con relationship between KE and HEAT, otherwise they would not both exist in real life. Long story short, use HEAT against lighter armored targets. But I understand the frustration -- people have KE loaded and want to one-shot-kill everything they see.

 

The jab at the Leclerc is cute but ill informed. Light armor being shot through with 120mm KE killing everything in its path is hardly "protection". The difference being that the Leclerc would stand up to autocanon and most HEAT in most areas (barring the curiously designed mantlet? - please, save this for the Leclerc thread!). Of course it is possible to kill any tank with a series of well placed high performance APFSDS autocanon rounds (the M1, Leo2, Leclerc, Clallenger are no exceptions). You can certainly shoot the Leclerc in places with M829A3 and have it pass through while killing things in its path, without a full vehicle kill as well - it all depends on the impact area.

Not without damage no, and I'm aware about the difference between KE and HEAT. But why does my TC want me to shoot the thing with KE? It will take multiple hits before it is killed. The Leclerc jab was being sarcastic...did some tests with the slsgr-95 and it still took 10 rounds before destroyed...I had to remove the KE rounds 'cause of the annoying TC wanting me to shoot KE. Another test with m830a1, still need multiple (2-9) rounds to destroy, even from the side, when fired @1000 meters it is not enough to destroy it.

 

Tried the same test with the Boxer. The thing took 17 M830a3 rounds and still not destroyed...

 

Edited by munckmb
slsgr-95 test.

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One thing to remember here is that combat ineffective doesn't equal destroyed.  In SB, if one crewman or carried infantryman is still alive so is the vehicle, even if the vehicles is completely unable to shoot, move, or communicate.   I almost guarantee that the first sabot you put into a Boxer's engine compartment stopped it dead and, depending on the angle, probably killed the driver.  The rest of the vehicle is mostly air, and particularly designed for crew survivability, so I wouldn't waste more than a couple of sabots against it.  As long as it isn't moving and can't shoot, drop arty on it and move on. 

Edited by MAJ_Fubar

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6 hours ago, Carthaginian said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it seems to be the local 'kick things around' thread, so I felt it the best place to start. Please let me know if it isn't.
I'm former AL Natl Guard ('01-'08; OIF1) 95/31B, who never got to play with the big toys; I was too late for the Commando and too early for the Guardian. I've known about Steel Beasts for a while now, and have finally decided to take the plunge. I was happy that the new version had released as I was getting ready to buy, but I'm seeing posts about low framerates and some other graphics problems; so, I thought it would be prudent to ask if my computer (its pretty old) could handle the game before I purchase it. I'm planning on building new box by Christmas, so I'll buy then if I don't buy now.
My comp's specs are:
AMD Athlon II Quad-core 620 (2.1 GHz)
8 GB RAM
Win 7 64-bit Home
AMD R9 200 (7970) 3GB Ram

Thanks, and hope to see you on the battlefield soon...

Heya Carthaginian!

 

Welcome.

 

As far as I can tell, your system should be able to run SB Pro PE v.4.0.

You may need to lower settings a wee bit, and there is a great thread dealing with video card settings to assist in keeping performance up.

 

Thread on hardware recommendations:

 

Thread on decreasing fps stutter:

Thread on which license is good for you:

Welcome to the crew!

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You can always get a 1 x month license (US$10 or so).

 

Then you have a month to confirm if it works to your taste or not before investing in a full license.

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Since the topic has meandered over to surviveability I have a question. Is the crew's inclination to duck & therefore miss with an OPFOR ATGM modeled? Last night was playing Zipuli's Tank platoon in attack. Had a BMP crest a rise & shot him through the front slope with a SABOT. Just as the loader finished reloading HEAT they launched a Sagger.  Moments later I hit it again in the turret with said HEAT round. Thinking I was safe I watched in horror as the missile flew unerringly 2-3 VERY long seconds & hit my tank. I dont know for certain if my HEAT round killed the BMP but I would think if anything would cause the gunner to duck in the BMP that heat round would have done it. 

 

Zipuli, I really enjoy that mission in the M60A3 but that counter attack at the end... Dirt pool old man! LOL It was great though, serious pucker factor!

Edited by Longknife

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55 minutes ago, Azure Lion said:

Heya Carthaginian!

Welcome.

As far as I can tell, your system should be able to run SB Pro PE v.4.0.

You may need to lower settings a wee bit, and there is a great thread dealing with video card settings to assist in keeping performance up.

Welcome to the crew!

 

Thanks. I'll install and give the 1-month a try.
I have been playing military 'sims' since Red Storm Rising came out many moons ago (and have pushed a fair bit of pewter, too), but this is a whole new level of complexity.

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I dig the overhead view. The zoom, spin and rotation are very intuitive with the mouse. Question is can we get a more shallow angle when rotating the view outward? That way we can see a greater distance?

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2 minutes ago, Carthaginian said:

 

Thanks. I'll install and give the 1-month a try.
I have been playing military 'sims' since Red Storm Rising came out many moons ago (and have pushed a fair bit of pewter, too), but this is a whole new level of complexity.

Well, since you are used to sims, I doubt it will be all that difficult for you other than memorizing the hot keys.

Best thing is to pick a vehicle you enjoy and learn it well before continuing on to another, unless you are one of those peeps that is just super human when it comes to these things.

Other than that, try the trainers and some of the single player missions. Camp_Hornfelt missions are a great set of scenarios to get your feet warmed up on the back of the gunner's helmet. That, and just about any mission that has 'section' or 'platoon' in the title.

 

Could never get my friends interested enough to warrant upgrading to pewter...

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12 minutes ago, dpabrams said:

 

I dig the overhead view. The zoom, spin and rotation are very intuitive with the mouse. Question is can we get a more shallow angle when rotating the view outward? That way we can see a greater distance?

I would warrant a guess that, as this is an 'overhead view', the restriction placed on the vertical angle is to keep it from being too powerful a tool.

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5 minutes ago, Azure Lion said:

Well, since you are used to sims, I doubt it will be all that difficult for you other than memorizing the hot keys.

Best thing is to pick a vehicle you enjoy and learn it well before continuing on to another, unless you are one of those peeps that is just super human when it comes to these things.

Other than that, try the trainers and some of the single player missions. Camp_Hornfelt missions are a great set of scenarios to get your feet warmed up on the back of the gunner's helmet. That, and just about any mission that has 'section' or 'platoon' in the title.

 

Could never get my friends interested enough to warrant upgrading to pewter...


I've been skimming through the wiki since the 'missus' gave me a kitchen pass to buy.
Thanks for the tips on the 'orientation' missions; I'll give them a go. Aside from the 'usual suspects' of the M1A2 and Leopard 2, are there any vehicles you would recommend focusing on early in the experience to give a newcomer a good grounding of how to manage a vehicle?

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Oh goodness... I would have to say go with what you like and learn those.

Nothing beats learning to pilot the AFV you like the most.

I would however recommend giving the Bradleys and the CV90 line ups a whirl as well.

M60 and Leopard 1s are a blast too.

The Russian equipment is a bit difficult to learn but a great challenge. If you can can get good with them, then you are a pro, in my humble opinion anyway. And the NATO equipment doesn't feel so claustrophobic afterwards. :P

 

So yeah, basically try them all and see what you like. They are all unique, and in my humble opinion, enjoyable to pilot. Even the support and scout units, such as the trucks. In many missions that you play as the sole player, you'll probably end up piloting a variety of units anyway.

Edited by Azure Lion

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11 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

When a HEAT rounds hits an APC, the warhead detonates, the liner collapses, and a big stream of vaporized copper, hot gas, plasma, and chunks of armor come blasting through the hull with much more effect than would have happened if you'd shot it with a sabot.

 


The HEAT jet and slug are actually solid copper (or other lining material) that has flowed under high pressure. It isn't 'molten' by a conventional definition of being above melting point temperature, and very certainly isn't a vapourised form.

In essence it is a dynamically formed, unstable and extreme elongation 'long rod' using a shaped explosion front to focus a warhead liner into a penetrator. Differences also include a velocity gradient between tip (very fast) and base (fast), and that the majority of the mass is in the slug which travels very much more slowly behind the jet.

EFP does a similar thing, but uses more material, formed into a longer ranged, more coherent and stable but shorter and bulkier projectile.

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Need basic help fellows.  Way back when Ssnake wrote the following:

 

Ssnake said:
Also, there's the option in the file menu to activate the "mouse vector" which will always draw a line from your mouse position to the screen center while you're controlling a gun sight.

 

So, where is this option exactly?  I saw it in a video and want to use it.

 

Thanks.

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When you are in the game in upper left of screen there are some pull-down menus.  Pull down "System."  One of the choices is "Show Mouse Vector."

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10 hours ago, munckmb said:

Not without damage no, and I'm aware about the difference between KE and HEAT. But why does my TC want me to shoot the thing with KE? It will take multiple hits before it is killed. The Leclerc jab was being sarcastic...did some tests with the slsgr-95 and it still took 10 rounds before destroyed...I had to remove the KE rounds 'cause of the annoying TC wanting me to shoot KE. Another test with m830a1, still need multiple (2-9) rounds to destroy, even from the side, when fired @1000 meters it is not enough to destroy it.

 

Tried the same test with the Boxer. The thing took 17 M830a3 rounds and still not destroyed...

 

 

OK, well it could be a bug causing the AI to prefer KE against the XA-360 all the time, we will look at that.

 

That said, a key bit of info that you left out of all this (unless I overlooked it) is the impact aspect angle on the target. Having tested this myself, I see that you must be referring to the front.

 

From the frontal aspect the AI commander is perfectly aware of the LOS thickness of armor from the angle you are looking at (too good actually, but this helps make up for his other short comings). So, if the AI perceives that the ammunition it has available will be ineffective, since HEAT protection in the front of these vehicles is VERY GOOD. Therefore it will prefer a different ammo type that will be effective, hence the preference for KE. That said, it doesn't explain why it still prefers KE when viewing the target from the side and rear, where HEAT would be perfectly able to destroy said targets with ease (this is the part that might be a bug).

 

But beyond that, and speaking very generally here (and assuming that "M830" is a typo and that you meant to say M829A3), these two PCs in question are the very latest/modern in design. MEXAS composites plus all around spall liner protection equates to ideal post penetration survivability, provided that you aren't sitting in the path of the penetration of course. So that in itself is not the issue with the multiple KE rounds required to kill it from the front, and because a single M829A3 from the side will usually kill them with ease I see.

 

A tip though, in the mean time, when engaging the XA-360 from the front, shoot to the the PC's left front (your right) as this is the driver's area. Center mass, or to the XA-360's right front is placing the round through the engine compartment where both the engine AND transmission are in direct alignment and which provide a great deal of extra protection to the vehicle (I am sure this was intended in the design). This is mostly true of all PCs, but to make things confusing, the Boxer has the engine/transmission on the opposite side (its left front, your right). :/ Personally, what I suggest is if you are reengaging a lighter armored target with KE, then move the aim point around the target and hit it in another location, rather than continuing to put 13 rounds into center mass.  Obviously though this is difficult to do if the target is at extreme range, in which case - given that KE loses penetration power over range - you should just press H and stop shooting at it in general.

 

6 hours ago, MAJ_Fubar said:

One thing to remember here is that combat ineffective doesn't equal destroyed.  In SB, if one crewman or carried infantryman is still alive so is the vehicle, even if the vehicles is completely unable to shoot, move, or communicate.   I almost guarantee that the first sabot you put into a Boxer's engine compartment stopped it dead and, depending on the angle, probably killed the driver.  The rest of the vehicle is mostly air, and particularly designed for crew survivability, so I wouldn't waste more than a couple of sabots against it.  As long as it isn't moving and can't shoot, drop arty on it and move on. 

 

Yeah, exactly. People shoot a vehicle twice or three times and wants it dead, NOW! I am sometimes guilty of that myself. :) 

 

But yes, nevermind that the vehicle is most likely completely disabled and is a paperweight. The likely reply is: "my AI wants me to keep shooting at it" but actually the AI will let you ignore some targets that have an abundance (and a combination) of certain damage types. Often too, the AI will let you just simply go to another target that isn't damaged. But given that it is all situational specific, and if the exact combination of damage to allow the AI commander to ignore it isn't true, and if said target is only target in view, then the use of "H" or "T" key applies while you look for another target and/or move around for a better 90 degree angle on side of target to issue the coup de grace, or while you drop artillery on it, send infantry for it, or totally ignore it and move on/backup into concealed position and wait for better targets to appear.

 

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Thanks for the additional information Volcano. Indeed I was referring to the front. Three times hit with a sabot and still driving was a bit of a surprise. Multiple HEAT rounds dead center did the same. Pretty safe vehicles to be in! Center mass is / was most of the time my aiming point, I will adjust it now. So thanks again and I will aim for the drivers. :-)

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47 minutes ago, TSe419E said:

When you are in the game in upper left of screen there are some pull-down menus.  Pull down "System."  One of the choices is "Show Mouse Vector."

Ahh...that's where it is.  TY very much.

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27 minutes ago, munckmb said:

Thanks for the additional information Volcano. Indeed I was referring to the front. Three times hit with a sabot and still driving was a bit of a surprise. Multiple HEAT rounds dead center did the same. Pretty safe vehicles to be in! Center mass is / was most of the time my aiming point, I will adjust it now. So thanks again and I will aim for the drivers. :-)

they might seem safe when you're shooting at them and they're not catching on fire, but you're pretty much penetrating them front to back. 

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