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Recommended Joysticks


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12 hours ago, Fichtenwald said:

So, related to real AFV control handles (or such training replicas): 

 

How much „tension“/spring-back do they have? For example, here an ERCWS-M gunner's station with a two hand control handle. Or here the one hand control handle for a similar system in another vehicle (commander's position).


Does it take a significant force to move those real control handles or to start moving them from the center? Because if yes, then a gaming joystick with strong spring tension might be ok anyway...

 

Thanks a lot for advises! And have a good weekend!

 

They vary, but typically they're both about 2 Nm, which is about x 2-3 the force required for gaming joysticks.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Ssnake said:

All that being said, maybe you simply try out the mouse/keyboard combination. This should clarify if you really want to have some form of joystick connected. If you still miss one in five or eight weeks, at least you then know that it's not a spur of the moment decision.

 

Yes, I am already used to mouse/keyboard in SB; the mouse gives very precise control. But it feels strange, and not „authentic“ at all, to control (for example) a tank gun with a mouse. Because of that, I definitely want to go for a „control handle/joystick“ setup.

 

23 hours ago, Ssnake said:

AFV Sim would know best which of their models had the least stiff springs. Also, I seem to remember that they were planning to offer kits for self-assembly (not sure if these plans ever came to fruition, though). I would suspect that you could then choose to mount softer springs.

 

By "kits for self-assembly" you mean AFV Sim control handles for PE-Version users (= hobby players)?

 

 

12 hours ago, hawes said:

 

They vary, but typically they're both about 2 Nm, which is about x 2-3 the force required for gaming joysticks.

 

Thank you very much for the explanation! Looking through your products is amazing!

 

4 hours ago, 12Alfa said:

I recently this year, have bought this device....I'm very happy with the performance, and price.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Thunderstick-GRS-Flight-Yoke/dp/B08L7TVCM2

 

71PYN8hMMKL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

 

Interesting, thanks, it has an "unusual" design. After looking it up: So, it is a "Retro Arcade Machine" control handle replica... :). Do you have a button box, because it does not seem to have many buttons?

 

On the price: Only Amazon.com seems to sell those GRS products and the above handle costs (for my region) 265,00 $ + 29,06 $ (Amazon global) + 165,96 (import taxes) = 460,02 $. I am not a gamer and have never bought a joystick before: this is generally not an option for me, such a price is not justified for someone like me, who has not much time to play. I wonder, how much more an AFV Sim two hand control handle would cost...

 

13 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

Having tried many solutions... I do recommend mouse and keyboard or Joustic that is easy to use along with mouse and keyboard.  Thing with steelbeast is that you need mouse for so many things. 

 

Thanks, so, in your opinion, a one hand control handle (= joystick) is better for SB, because there are so many other things to control with the second, free hand? With a "rare" two hand control handle, this would probably be not so easy. Except when just playing in the position of a gunner and nothing else...

 

13 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

As for  T16000M   I have that joystic as well (for flight sim purposes)  and It is a very good joystic in my opinion. I have not used it in Steelbeast though, because rather profound lack of buttons. 

 

It has 12 buttons on the base and 4 (+ 8-way hat switch) on the stick. So more are needed for SB?

 

I come to the "interim result" : it will maybe not be so easy, to find the right control handle/joystick for SB... :)

Edited by Fichtenwald
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I use a mouse and Joystick for all positions except the gunner controls. This device has ,the general hand placement, and angle to most tank FCS. The device is rigged for laze and fire straight from box. Has 15 inputs, so room to grow. That's where I am at now, testing.

 

As for the $$, well my flying setup cost more, as well as other hobbies...(must keep telling myself this)...:)

and cost less than a sheet of plywood...

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4 minutes ago, Fichtenwald said:
13 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

Having tried many solutions... I do recommend mouse and keyboard or Joustic that is easy to use along with mouse and keyboard.  Thing with steelbeast is that you need mouse for so many things. 

 

Thanks, so, in your opinion, a one hand control handle (= joystick) is better for SB, because there are so many other things to control with the second, free hand? With a "rare" two hand control handle, this would probably be not so easy. Except when just playing in the position of a gunner and nothing else...

 

13 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

As for  T16000M   I have that joystic as well (for flight sim purposes)  and It is a very good joystic in my opinion. I have not used it in Steelbeast though, because rather profound lack of buttons. 

 

It has 12 buttons on the base and 4 (+ 8-way hat switch) on the stick. So more are needed for SB? The two hand control handle from 12Alfa has only 4 buttons.

 

I come to the "interim result" : it will maybe not be so easy, to find the right control handle/joystick for SB... :)

 

Umm...  it depends what you want.  If you want immersion, youd either go for control handles with palm switches, or joustic with switch or trigger that could be used as one.    Some control handles have buttons mirrored on each sides like on mine Leopard 2A5 control handle.  So I can use it on either hand while doing other things with other hand.  Problem is that it isn't most convenient...  for my wrist.     For confort I would probably prefer joystic.  And button vise...  T16000M  probably has enough buttons, for basic needs. And you could have trigger as palm swich for immersion and center button as firing button?  Problem I had with my old logitech was that it was really old and broken..  buttons on base didn't work.  Also.. I find those buttons on base bit hard to have muscle memory on.. even on DCS.... SO maybe bit more buttons on handle would be desirable?    And if you want to be moving.. you probably want your left hand to be on keyboard anyways. And to switch right hand between joystic and mouse depending what you need to do.  Thats how I did it in the past before my control handle.

 

Umm...  as for  control handle from 12Alfa...  my leopard control handle has 4 buttons as well (mirrored to both sides) + palm switch.  Thats why I kind of recommend a button box with control handle.   Though for future.. I am looking for commander control handle instead of gunner one as that would be wayyy  more convenient for me. 

 

Seriously...  for you because your price limit there is just one option.

 

I do recomment  T16000M or any similar quality / or better joystic.      Anything else is just out of your affortable price range.    And if you want to tune your joystic.. you can get Track IR with it.  

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I think as far as accuracy and the number of buttons are concerned, the T.16000 is in a sweet spot. It may not be "perfect" but for its price it delivers what you can expect from a stick. If you think its springs are too stiff, I doubt you will many joysticks that are softer than this one.

Is it "authentic"?

I think only the replicas from AFV Sim qualify.

I don't see how a flight stick would be "more" authentic than mouse and keyboard. Both are "inauthentic substitutes". But then there are also questions like how much space do you have on your desk if you need to have keyboard, mouse, and joystick simultaneously in use.

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16 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

Just to let you guys know here is one more choice to consider..   

 

https://virpil-controls.eu/shop/flightsticks.html  Virpil   they make really good sticks  and also button boxes.  Though base and stick are sold separate and prices get salty very quickly

 

image.thumb.png.e00795d4331e7be94b3062512a5202d3.png vpc-401_07.jpg

vyrpil is belorussian if I know right. Im doing my best boycotting these regimes aligned with russia and china.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2021 at 12:59 AM, Ssnake said:

I think as far as accuracy and the number of buttons are concerned, the T.16000 is in a sweet spot. It may not be "perfect" but for its price it delivers what you can expect from a stick. If you think its springs are too stiff, I doubt you will many joysticks that are softer than this one.

 

Thanks to everyone for the advices! Yes, I will go for the Thrustmaster T16000.

 

It seems like a reasonable choice for SB in my case:

 

(a) I do not play any other games, it is exclusively for SB (so most of the flight simulator sticks seem too specialized, especially the ones, that come with a H.O.T.A.S. system by default).

(b) It is the first joystick that I will have (so I will have to find out, what combination/setup suits me best for SB. What is needed and what not?)

(c) Not much time to play currently, so it is not justified to immediately buy a "premium" one - hopefully there will be more time in the near future.

 

Therefore it seems reasonable to me, to go for something on this level first, if I then find out, what exactly I need for SB, then I can still go for something like the above, with higher quality and possibly more specialization.

 

On 5/30/2021 at 12:59 AM, Ssnake said:

Is it "authentic"? I think only the replicas from AFV Sim qualify.

I don't see how a flight stick would be "more" authentic than mouse and keyboard. Both are "inauthentic substitutes". 

 

I get the point of course, "authentic" in its strict sense was the wrong word to use (and it also has no comparative degree or superlative), this is why I put it between marks initially. But from an isolated, purely haptic perspective:

 

Isn't a joystick a little "closer" to the real control handles, than a mouse? You hold your hand in a similar position to some of the control handles, the trigger is in a similar position and often some of the additional buttons too. And some of the real control handles seem pretty close (in this isolated regard) to some of the flight simulator joysticks mentioned above, like this one and commander control handles too. The SB two-hand controller from 12Alfa seems also a lot closer in this regard, than using a mouse. This is what I initially meant...

Edited by Fichtenwald
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50 minutes ago, Fichtenwald said:

Isn't a joystick a little "closer" to the real control handles, than a mouse?

As an engineer, I can't answer this. It's a question for artists, psychologists, actors, and similar professions.

If it makes you feel better, go for it. Steel Beasts supports joysticks.

 

It seems like almost every single combat vehicle that I have inspected so far has had its own concept of a user interface. There are some standards, but not many. The complexity of the fire control systems largely seems to determine the number of buttons on a control handle. There are simple ones like the Leopard 2, and then there are the ones that you find in CV90s, and anything between those extremes.

If I were to order a stick from AFV Sim for my personal enjoyment, I would probably pick one that has the most buttons on it so I retain flexibility to use it with less complex vehicles as well. But it still wouldn't be the same, obviously; it might help you pretend it is but at the end of the day it's a question of the limits of your own imagination. The practical reality is, in Steel Beasts you're usually controlling multiple vehicles from multiple crew positions, and you simply can't have multiple replicas connected to reflect that. Therefore, if you want something joystick-y, a universal joystick is probably the best choice even though objectively it's just a different kind of "wrong" compared to a mouse/keyboard combo (which you will need to work with, anyway).

 

Authenticity can only be approximated with a mockup that has instrument replicas in the right places, and you would give up a lot of flexibility that way since a CV90/30 interior is not a Marder is not a Bradley is not a T-62 is not a Leopard, ....

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I agree with Ssnake on almost everything he says there. And if you look at AFV sim handles... You find that there is Soo many categories too. 

 

what i disagree Is play style xD. To my experience what ssnake says applies to most people here. But

then again I'm weirdo who chooses to stick to leopards and crew positions. Hence i can get by with one set up without need to bind different keys for every different vehicle.  😉

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