3.028 CV9035 reload issues

[Lumituisku]

 

As tittle says, after playing some missions with cv9035 and having multiple worries / troubles with reload times or how to start reloading.

 

First...  if there are commander and gunner on vehicle, it is unnecessary difficult to start reloading. There doesn't seem to be any indication of correct position. - I kind of noticed that if turret is exatly 90 degrees angle to hull, it most likely will start. But even just 1 degree deviation and it might not.

 

Work around for that seems to be that all to get out of vehicle to external view F8...  then to start reload and it reloads all but smokes fairly easy. Maingun rounds come in stacks of 7 every 45 seconds... and even on end pelt it is still fairly fast 3minutes 40 seconds per 7 rounds. (end of the belt only on sabot rounds and at 22 round mark). Coaxial machine gun then again reloads insanely fast. on something like it fills up to 250 rounds in just 50 seconds? When compared to many other vehicles coaxial reload times this is perhaps most fast so far. 

 

But really...  its the reload time of smokes and grenades that bothers me. On CV9035, there is 3 smokes. left, center, right. And  two grenades..  each of these have reload time of 4 minutes! even just one grenade takes 4 minutes to be placed to tube...  while on other vehicles its entirely different thing.

 

For just one salvo of smoke or grenade these vehicles reload approximately (very rough estimates from hasty test mission.) 

 

cv9030 / cv9040 around 30 seconds

leopard 2 around 40 seconds

leopard 1 around 15~20 seconds

M1A2 sep around 15~20 seconds 

 

cv9035 DK / NL  -  4 minutes! 

 

 

So in summary...

 

Would it be possible to get cv9035 series to be more larger area where reload begins. Or to make it automatically stop at that location like on cv9030 for example.

 

And cv90305 smoke / grenade reload times are...  at least in my opinion way off the scale when compared to other vehicles smoke reload times. Perhaps this has something to do with laser detection system? I still have very hard time to believe it would really take that long...  4 minutes to reload just one salvo of smoke.. from 3 salvos..   chees.  

 

 

 

[Major duck]

There are also some issues when you change ammo on it then sometimes the whole firecontrol freezes up and you have to cykle through all ammo types to get it to unfreeze plus the damage output of the ABM shells is nowwhere nere irl.

You also cant blind a Tank with the airburst round the same as irl very well its luck if you do  KT and Tjay tested it extensially and thats why we in Kanium use the CV9030FIN instead bopth because its simpler and much much better reload times and not nerely as many bugs.

Plus the smoke firing is very odd its not always going the way you expect the smoke to go

 

MD

[Gibsonm]

41 minutes ago, Lumituisku said:

So in summary...

 

Would it be possible to get cv9035 series to be more larger area where reload begins. Or to make it automatically stop at that location like on cv9030 for example.

 

And cv90305 smoke / grenade reload times are...  at least in my opinion way off the scale when compared to other vehicles smoke reload times. Perhaps this has something to do with laser detection system? I still have very hard time to believe it would really take that long...  4 minutes to reload just one salvo of smoke.. from 3 salvos..   chees.  

 

OK stop work on 4.x until this is fixed.

 

I'm pretty sure its way too late to ask for things to be fixed (in either 3.028 or fixed for 4.x), unless of course you want the release date to start sliding right?

 

Unless there is some massive issue that requires an instant "hot fix" (which wouldn't include things like this anyway) that the next "patch" is a few months away.

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Gibsonm

[Lumituisku]

15 minutes ago, Major duck said:

There are also some issues when you change ammo on it then sometimes the whole firecontrol freezes up and you have to cykle through all ammo types to get it to unfreeze plus the damage output of the ABM shells is nowwhere nere irl.

You also cant blind a Tank with the airburst round the same as irl very well its luck if you do  KT and Tjay tested it extensially and thats why we in Kanium use the CV9030FIN instead bopth because its simpler and much much better reload times and not nerely as many bugs.

Plus the smoke firing is very odd its not always going the way you expect the smoke to go

 

MD

 

It is as well reason why I favor cv9030 over -35. But now as i have found out work around to those other reload times..  I might consider using -35 again...  just this smoke. It is unbearable long reload time. Considering that its so essential to be able to hide yourself in tight place..  especially if running out of sabot rounds. 

 

And I would really wish for something to be done to reload position be more...  achievable even when crew is inside vehicle.  CV9035, has after all so far very cood systems inside vehicle that make multicrew playing very interesting. 

 

As for blinding tank or AFV if id really... truly.... need to. Id really rather use coax, especially on shorter range where its accurate enough. MP-rounds seem to be far too much lottery playing at least what I have been testing. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

OK stop work on 4.x until this is fixed.

 

I'm pretty sure its way too late to ask for things to be fixed (in either 3.028 or fixed for 4.x), unless of course you want the release date to start sliding right?

 

 

And man...  really I didn't point this out to be fixed to 4.0  but for future updates after it. I'm sure they are busy on Esims, and i'm already very thankful of them doing so much good in 4.0

But really...  cv9035 would be much more playable with these things being different. 

 

As disclaimer... I do not know how cv9035 is in real life. Perhaps it really takes 4 minutes to load one salvo of smoke. Perhaps it is extremely picky of its turret position while reloading. I do not know. But I heavily suspect these things hence i brought these up to at least discus. 

 

 

 

[Major duck]

aint what i am saying Mark i was just telling Lumi that there are other issues as well but i havent got the time or the skills to document it the right way for Esim

 

So i just dont use it (Like any any other IFV if i can get away with it)

 

 

MD

 

[Gibsonm]

Sorry I was responding to Lumituisku's post.

 

Will go back and edit to include his quote - for context.

[Major duck]

12 minutes ago, Lumituisku said:

 

It is as well reason why I favor cv9030 over -35. But now as i have found out work around to those other reload times..  I might consider using -35 again...  just this smoke. It is unbearable long reload time. Considering that its so essential to be able to hide yourself in tight place..  especially if running out of sabot rounds. 

 

And I would really wish for something to be done to reload position be more...  achievable even when crew is inside vehicle.  CV9035, has after all so far very cood systems inside vehicle that make multicrew playing very interesting. 

 

As for blinding tank or AFV if id really... truly.... need to. Id really rather use coax, especially on shorter range where its accurate enough. MP-rounds seem to be far too much lottery playing at least what I have been testing. 

 

 

 

And man...  really I didn't point this out to be fixed to 4.0  but for future updates after it. I'm sure they are busy on Esims, and i'm already very thankful of them doing so much good in 4.0

But really...  cv9035 would be much more playable with these things being different. 

 

As disclaimer... I do not know how cv9035 is in real life. Perhaps it really takes 4 minutes to load one salvo of smoke. Perhaps it is extremely picky of its turret position while reloading. I do not know. But I heavily suspect these things hence i brought these up to at least discus. 

 

 

 

 

One of the guys in Kanium was a driver in the first deployment to Afganistan with the CV9035DK and he says that the Ammo reload times are real , but i havent heard him say anything about the smoke.

 

But you can talk to him yourself on the 10th of July or just pop in on most sundays as he is pretty active and tomorrow he will prolly ansver this thread when he sees it

And then yell at me on ts because i am not accurate enough 

 

MD

Edited June 4, 2016 by Major duck

[Lumituisku]

11 minutes ago, Major duck said:

 

One of the guys in Kanium was a driver in the first deployment to Afganistan with the CV9035DK and he says that the Ammo reload times are real , but i havent heard him say anything about the smoke.

 

But you can talk to him yourself on the 10th of July or just pop in on most sundays as he is pretty active and tomorrow he will prolly ansver this thread when he sees it

 

MD

 

Sure, will be interesting to see what he knows about this.

 

But really I wasn't complaining about actual reload times of ammunition Just pointed those out for everyone who has felt similar issues. While the actual problem.... if you are in vehicle, there is very little indication when reload is working, and it is...  to my opinion way too difficult to get turret reliability to position where reload starts. - Wider, larger area where reloading begins, or automatic locking mechanism like on cv9030, would make this more more player friendly when playing vehicle on full crew. Then again...  Like I said.. if one goes to F8 view and lets AI do reloading. Reload - times are OK and make sense. of course with exception of smokes / grenades

 

As for smokes..  will be interesting to know about those too... will it really take that long. Or well.. how long it actually takes for one salvo.

 

 

 

 

[DK-DDAM]

well since when reloading the smoke charges we have to get the smoke shells from behind the commanders turret.. where the batteries are located for that specific part.. and if it is as normal.. the driver would have alot of his gear stored along with the commander in those boxes so to get the shells for the smoke launchers do take a little bit of time.. regarding the 35mm rounds once youve shot your 35 rounds per mag. you have to slew the turret 90 degrees to each side, all depending on what magasine you want to refill.. and since reloading of the magasines can only happen from the infantry compartment it takes time.. all the ammunition is stored under the turret.. so since the infantry that sits there is all cramped up theyd have to do the refilling of the mags. where you pull the shells out in a band of 7 rounds, and continuesly attach them to eachother as you feed the 35 rounds back into the magasine. and that bit takes time... plus if you didnt have infantry in the back it normally falls to the driver to sort out the magasine refilling. if you want more info give a shout.. and sry if it doesnt make all sense to you.. but i tried to make it understandable.. and if possible ill take pictures to explain further...

Edited June 4, 2016 by DK-DDAM

[Gibsonm]

As for the other vehicles:

 

Leo 1 and M1 store their smoke grenades outside (since they have WP and other highly inflammable components in them) and the stowage box is very close to the multi barrelled smoke grenade discharger (MBSGD) unit.

 

E.g.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Gibsonm

[DK-DDAM]

indweed

[Lumituisku]

So  the regarding smokes and grenades does it really take 4 minutes to fill one salvo... or would it be more like... 4 minutes to fill all? Asssuming those all are in same place? It kind of feels very weird that filling all smokes and grenades ( in case all are used) would take 4 x 5 = 20 minutes?

[Ssnake]

I think something went wrong with the smoke, like, it was to take "four minutes for all smoke rounds", and somehow a programmer made it to be "four minutes per individual grenade" or so. The problem is, we're reluctant to change things if we don't get feedback from our army customers if its OK to do so. After all it would have a direct impact on their training. But I'll ask next week, I'm on location at the Dutch Cavalry School anyway.

[Lumituisku]

 

1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

I think something went wrong with the smoke, like, it was to take "four minutes for all smoke rounds", and somehow a programmer made it to be "four minutes per individual grenade" or so. The problem is, we're reluctant to change things if we don't get feedback from our army customers if its OK to do so. After all it would have a direct impact on their training. But I'll ask next week, I'm on location at the Dutch Cavalry School anyway.

 

Oh wow. That would be awesome! 

 

-----------------

 

Would it be too much to be asked...  well for someone here who knows about cv9035. How to start reloading when there are both commander and gunner reliability without having need for all crew to go to external F8 view. How it is done on this this vehicle in real life? I see that there is this yellow area indication on turret clock...  but actual area where reload begins in game is way smaller...  in turret clock its more like..  10 to 15 degrees, while in game it seems to be just 1-2 degrees are where reload will actually pick up. Also some indication of reload process like turret locking in place, or noise of reloading rounds would as well help gunner and commander to find right position for turret / gun. 

[DK-DDAM]

no no smoke grenades are the simplest thing to reload on the vehicle.. sec.. ill draw..

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by DK-DDAM

[DK-DDAM]

would take what 2 min or something like that, to reload all the smoke charges... im just doing an estimated time since we never took time on the reloading of smokes.

[Ssnake]

12 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

Would it be too much to be asked...  How to start reloading when there are both commander and gunner reliability without having need for all crew to go to external F8 view. How it is done on this this vehicle in real life?

 

For both Commander and Gunner the ammo is literally right unter their asses. So you turn the turret until the rear crew tells you that the ammo bin is right within their reach,, and then you stop moving. Maybe you memorize the exact setting on the turret clock. Also, crews will probably assemble the ammo belt on a lowered ramp, but there's a limit to what level of detail we can (and should) reasonably simulate. More details usually make everything more complicated. Like, right now reload occurs if the turret is at 3 o'clock. In reality, that's only the right ammo feed, and you'd need to turn the turret to somewhere between 8 and 9 o'clock to reload the left feed (APFSDS). The question is, do you really want that level of detail. Because then we could also add a time modifier that makes reloads even slower if the squad is dismounted.

 

We have to draw the line somewhere, always.

[DK-DDAM]

and sry if i talk to much here ssnake.. dont wanna make it feel like its supposed to be like in real life..

[Gibsonm]

1 hour ago, DK-DDAM said:

would take what 2 min or something like that, to reload all the smoke charges... im just doing an estimated time since we never took time on the reloading of smokes.

 

How about we wait until Ssnake talks to the actual users and get their preferred timing for the best training effect, as opposed to well intentioned but still random, guesses?

 

15 hours ago, Ssnake said:

I think something went wrong with the smoke, like, it was to take "four minutes for all smoke rounds", and somehow a programmer made it to be "four minutes per individual grenade" or so. The problem is, we're reluctant to change things if we don't get feedback from our army customers if its OK to do so. After all it would have a direct impact on their training. But I'll ask next week, I'm on location at the Dutch Cavalry School anyway.

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Gibsonm

[DK-DDAM]

im sry for that.. wasnt ment as if i didnt know what i talk about, although a driver on the vehicle my self.. but we didnt do timings on the smokes since wasnt deemed nessecery

[Lumituisku]

50 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

 

For both Commander and Gunner the ammo is literally right unter their asses. So you turn the turret until the rear crew tells you that the ammo bin is right within their reach,, and then you stop moving. Maybe you memorize the exact setting on the turret clock. Also, crews will probably assemble the ammo belt on a lowered ramp, but there's a limit to what level of detail we can (and should) reasonably simulate. More details usually make everything more complicated. Like, right now reload occurs if the turret is at 3 o'clock. In reality, that's only the right ammo feed, and you'd need to turn the turret to somewhere between 8 and 9 o'clock to reload the left feed (APFSDS). The question is, do you really want that level of detail. Because then we could also add a time modifier that makes reloads even slower if the squad is dismounted.

 

We have to draw the line somewhere, always.

 

I'm sorry to still go on this. But this is not what I'm trying to say.  -  I'm trying to say, that to make reloading start on cv9035, as a gunner / commander on this sim is way too difficult. Yes...  I understand that one has to turn turret to 3 o clock. Im fine with that. But does it really have to be that exact position? ...  like 90.0 degrees...  without even 1-2 degree deviation from that?  Also there is no indication..  of correct position.  

 

If you're alone...  lets say as a gunner. commander telling you "Go left, "Go right."  its almost impossible to get turret right position to start reloading.  

 

Best way that i have figured how to do this... is that you watch with VIS screen this big green layout of tank. And when turret is exactly 90 degrees... Reloading may start.    

 

That is what I feel so troubled by. So all I'm asking in this...  is that could this area... this zone where reload starts...  be made even slightly more large, or does it truly have to be dead center of 90 degree angle. (3'o clock) 

 

--------------------

 

Also really much thank you for all explaining me about these smokes. This picture you posted Gibsom was very good. No wonder that for example M1A2 can reload smokes that fast. And thank you too DK-DDAM, about the image. Now I understand the difference there.  I had been wondering what for are those weird roomy spaces there anyways. Now I know.

 

So yeah... I hope that one day reload time of all smokes / grenades will be dropped to 4 minutes for all at same time. Then it will be more practical vehicle on that way as well.

 

 

 

[Ssnake]

7 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

 

I'm sorry to still go on this. But this is not what I'm trying to say.  -  I'm trying to say, that to make reloading start on cv9035, as a gunner / commander on this sim is way too difficult. Yes...  I understand that one has to turn turret to 3 o clock. Im fine with that. But does it really have to be that exact position? ...  like 90.0 degrees...  without even 1-2 degree deviation from that?  Also there is no indication..  of correct position.  

 

Yes, I got that. And maybe we'll find a way to do something about it. I mean, it's certainly possible, I just can't promise a solution right away for version 4.0.

[Lumituisku]

Thank you for your understanding. 

 

4.0 and contracts are unarguably more important than some bugs on vehicles.

 

Hopefully eventually there will be time to fix issues from already existing vehicles.  

Sincerely ~ Lumi