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Maj.Hans

Mission Builder problems...

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Not problems with the mission builder itself, but with me...

I've made TONS of missions for Pro PE, and for the old SB1.  I've never released any of them anywhere.

 

Typically I make missions that are made to have human players on Blue, and Red scripted to be controlled by the AI.  The problem I run into is that I feel like the only way I can make Red competitive is to make them horribly outnumber Blue.

 

If Red is attacking I try to script Red to attack in some kind of coordinated manner.  Tanks move in, APCs approach the objective, drop their infantry, and then the troops move up with support from their APCs.

 

Typically I put about one to two companies of forces on the Blue side.  Either a mixed tank/PC company, or one of each.

 

So does anybody else make a crapload of scenarios and then feel like they're junk and never upload them?

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Maybe part of the problem is that you know what to expect. Even if you put in some randomness, you still have an idea of what's coming. That takes a lot of the pressure off. It's when you don't know how many and what kind of enemy you're facing that keeps you on edge.

 

Sometimes I like to tweak a scenario made by someone else, for example: changing the type of tank my own forces use. When I do, I try to avoid looking at the enemy scripting/disposition at all costs. Even seeing a random route tree gives me an idea of all the possible places the enemy might show up, and that just takes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

I've only ever designed and uploaded one complete mission. I didn't think it was the greatest scenario in the world, but it had all the elements in it that I wanted in a mission. (But, when I play it, it's still not quite as exciting as playing someone else's mission.) Since I uploaded it, I've gotten quite a few positive comments about it. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction to think that other people are enjoying something I created. You should try it. Heck, I know relatively nothing about the SOPs and the reality of combat. So, if I can do it...anyone can.

 

Just a thought. ;)

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That could be true.

 

I've run into a few other issues.  For example organization...

Squads make Platoons make a Company...OK I understand that...

 

Then the Companies make a Battalion...Unless they make a Regiment, or a Squadron....

And the Battalions (or Regiments) make a Division.  Or a Brigade...Or something.

 

Okay, forget it, I don't bother going into that detail.  I pull out a map of cold war Europe and go "Here's the 11th ACR, you're part of it, go!"

So I'm not sure if the units laid out on the map are going to make total sense to somebody who really understands that organization in depth.

 

Second, I feel like I have a damn hard time scripting a good attack at the tactical level.

 

When *I* try to take a position, I'll have HE/ICM artillery fire landing on the target, I'll have WP smoke coming down just short of the target to blind them, tanks and APCs leapfrogging in.  Maybe I'll have my APCs drop their ATGM teams off in a good position to fire on the objective and take the rifle squads in for the attack, etc.

I feel like my best attempts at scripting a good attack by Red against a human player turn into, well, little more than "AHHHH MOTHERLAND!  BANZAIIIIIIIII!".

 

Maybe I'll start uploading some stuff.

I noticed that my last few attempts at making a scenario that was non-linear and encouraged the player to actually use his recon units to find the enemy before moving out turned into something too huge for one Blue player to manage, so I've been trying to scale back the number of Blue units to a single company.

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9 hours ago, Lt DeFault said:

Maybe part of the problem is that you know what to expect. Even if you put in some randomness, you still have an idea of what's coming. That takes a lot of the pressure off. It's when you don't know how many and what kind of enemy you're facing that keeps you on edge.

 

 

 

@Maj.Hans  This is what I do with my personal missions.  I set up a large number of random movement orders and tactics for the AI side so I never know what is going to happen.  It works quite well.  Download and take a look at my Road to Ghoramshir scenario.  It was made as a single player for myself and as a cooperative mission for multiplayer.  Take a look at the red side AI movement and tactics and the randomness I put into it.  I always put into my red side AI about 4-5 different variations in movement and tactics for them to use against units I control.  Keeps me on my toes.  Hope this helps.

 

P.S. I can't remember if I put the red side under password so if I did, just pm me and I'll give it to you so you can get in to take a look.

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13 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

That could be true...

 

I noticed that my last few attempts at making a scenario that was non-linear and encouraged the player to actually use his recon units to find the enemy before moving out turned into something too huge for one Blue player to manage, so I've been trying to scale back the number of Blue units to a single company.

One way to handle situations like these is using triggers to minimize the amount to micro-managing the player has to do.  Using recon for example, you create multiple branching routes for the recon elements with their directions controlled at key points by triggers.  This allows the player to decide where he wants the recon elements to go when using just a few assets (recon push).  On the other hand, scripting the recon assets and instead using triggers to manage the movement of the player's main forces allows the player to decide what (successful) recon element to follow (recon pull).  In both cases you can heavily randomize the enemy forces for replay value without affecting the player's decision tree.

Edited by MAJ_Fubar

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14 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

So does anybody else make a crapload of scenarios and then feel like they're junk and never upload them?

 

I've made quiet a few but haven't uploaded them as the use our training doctrine.

 

I did share a scenario with another VU and then received a bunch of negative feedback about it being "broken", "crap", "unbalanced", etc.

 

Then I found out they changed the ORBAT as the didn't want to use Aust kit - that person didn't seem to comprehend that changing the forces might fundamentally change the playability, so I figured it was less grief to just stop sharing.

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3 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

Then I found out they changed the ORBAT as the didn't want to use Aust kit - that person didn't seem to comprehend that changing the forces might fundamentally change the playability, so I figured it was less grief to just stop sharing.

 

Changing the ORBAT makes it a totally different scenario...At least to me...

 

Especially since, from what I know of Australian AFVs, they seem to be tailored to a very different type of warfare than, say, American or German equipment.  Essentially a kind of "SURPRISE!" *WHACK!* "Later sucker!" type of equipment.  Not something to sit there and slug it out.

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8 hours ago, enigma6584 said:

 

@Maj.Hans  This is what I do with my personal missions.  I set up a large number of random movement orders and tactics for the AI side so I never know what is going to happen.  It works quite well.  Download and take a look at my Road to Ghoramshir scenario.  It was made as a single player for myself and as a cooperative mission for multiplayer.  Take a look at the red side AI movement and tactics and the randomness I put into it.  I always put into my red side AI about 4-5 different variations in movement and tactics for them to use against units I control.  Keeps me on my toes.  Hope this helps.

 

P.S. I can't remember if I put the red side under password so if I did, just pm me and I'll give it to you so you can get in to take a look.

I think I've played that one once or twice, the name seems familiar.

 

I'm going to keep playing around with the editor, I think I'm going to try experimenting to learn more about making a good random script for red and try making some of those.

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Hello Maj. Hans,

Trying out yr 1st (?) uploaded mission: Delaying action east of Hunfeld 1.0.0

 

Like it:

Russian attack seems quite realistic or at least textbook like. Not too much units to handle also (still a lot)

 

But I'm getting beaten a lot ;-)

Any suggestions from yr side to tackle this tactical problem. Esp. where to position the infantry ?

 

Two suggestions:

Might be helpful to mention in the briefing already that infantry is equipped with (lots of) ATGM. Helps for planning.

And there are other, more developed maps in SB (more objects etc ...)

 

Thx for the mission. More pls !

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21 hours ago, Koen said:

Hello Maj. Hans,

Trying out yr 1st (?) uploaded mission: Delaying action east of Hunfeld 1.0.0

 

Like it:

Russian attack seems quite realistic or at least textbook like. Not too much units to handle also (still a lot)

 

But I'm getting beaten a lot ;-)

Any suggestions from yr side to tackle this tactical problem. Esp. where to position the infantry ?

 

Two suggestions:

Might be helpful to mention in the briefing already that infantry is equipped with (lots of) ATGM. Helps for planning.

And there are other, more developed maps in SB (more objects etc ...)

 

Thx for the mission. More pls !

 

I'll alter the briefing in an update to reflect what weapons the infantry have.

 

When I tested that one, I had the ATGM equipped troops in the Unimogs form a ring outside of town, and put the MG and rifle squads in buildings throughout town.

 

I had the PCs break up into sections of two, and scatter down the valley to all the little paths and set up ambushes so that any time a Soviet unit decided to leave the main valley and clear out one of those little paths, they get ambushed by an ATGM team.  I also set up an ATGM team or two on the north side of the big hill by the town you're defending.  It keeps them out of sight, and they can shoot the Soviets in the back as they pass.

 

I'll send you a PM with some spoilers...

 

EDIT: Also think I just found a logic error having to do with mission time vs. incremental time, since theres a time limit and mission time counts down instead of up...

Edited by Maj.Hans

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