DarkFib3r Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 The M1A1 has two sights, the primary GPS and the auxiliary GAS. The GPS is the "doghouse" sight on top of the turret, easily visible on most M1A1 pictures. But the GAS is a telescope sight situated along the barrel somewhere and I have not been able to see it in game or on M1A1 pictures on the interweb. Can someone point out where the GAS is physically located? Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boone Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 I could be wrong but i thought it was the hole below the co-axial. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFib3r Posted September 14, 2016 Author Share Posted September 14, 2016 Nice, thanks! I must have looked at 20+ M1A1 pictures and not once did I see that hole under the coax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankenator Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 it is indeed the hole under the coax 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavictoireestlavie Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKeeM Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Yes that is the GAS and it is to the right of the coax in side the tank. Also when you are in a turret down position and move to a hull down position the gunner has to look through the GAS to make sure the gun clears the berm in front of the tank. Or else you will shoot nothing but dirt. LoL! The gunner gives the order for the driver to stop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will14 Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 1 hour ago, SKeeM said: Yes that is the GAS and it is to the right of the coax in side the tank. Also when you are in a turret down position and move to a hull down position the gunner has to look through the GAS to make sure the gun clears the berm in front of the tank. Or else you will shoot nothing but dirt. LoL! The gunner gives the order for the driver to stop. did not know that.....i've wasted more then a few rounds not getting my turret high enough lol.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted September 15, 2016 Members Share Posted September 15, 2016 On the Leo 2A5 (where the GAS has been moved on top of the mantlet), set the GAS reticule to range 1300m HEAT to check for berm clearance. If the crosshairs are above the rim, you're good to letting go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 (edited) Yep checking for "crest clearance" should be part of occupying a battle position. It actually gets worse for us at least because if you can't see where your round goes (because it ploughed into the dirt just in front of you) the drill is to report "not observed" fire again on the same lay - so two rounds go into the bank. Edited September 15, 2016 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 Couldn't the driver veto? Like:guys, i see an impact right in front of me. (if its not too dusty for him to see anything?). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted September 15, 2016 Share Posted September 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Grenny said: Couldn't the driver veto? Like:guys, i see an impact right in front of me. (if its not too dusty for him to see anything?). Well his view is usually obscured by the flash, dust and the discarding sabots - regardless of the round itself going 50m or 3,500m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Dumb ass question, but, in real life, assuming you didn't have an immediate need to fire, couldn't you just momentarily unload the main gun, and traverse/elevate the gun through the desired firing arc whilst the loader looked down the tube? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankenator Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, ChrisWerb said: Dumb ass question, but, in real life, assuming you didn't have an immediate need to fire, couldn't you just momentarily unload the main gun, and traverse/elevate the gun through the desired firing arc whilst the loader looked down the tube? Since In the M1A1 semi-combustable casings are used, you generally dont unload the round once fired, they are delicate and the risk of spilling 40 some odd pounds of highly flammable/explosive casing contents inside the turret is not really something worth doing when you have the GAS available 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I always wondered about the case fragility issue since we had a discussion about the practice of "lap-loading" over on TN years ago. If you have to manipulate these cartridges, reloading whilst on the move, there must be a danger of dropping or bumping the case hard against some internal fitting. Does this ever happen in practice and if so have there been instances of the rounds breaking and spilling propellant? I guess you can only make something so robust AND combustible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 There was some R&D performed on reducing fragility of these cases, as far as I know manufacturing and assembly was changed for newer types of ammunition. A year ago we had accident in Poland in one of our Leopard 2A4's, there was a misfire, so crew waited as procedure says before removing the misfired round from the gun, however the case was slightly damaged and propelant charge was exposed, when the breech was opened and round was partially removed fresh air get there and ignited propelant charge. Loader had 70%+ of his body burned, and died after a week or so (the guy was younger than I am), commander and gunner got less than 40% burns AFAIK, driver was unharmed. They were lucky that they got only 15 rounds in turret bustle magazine and no ammo in hull rack. The tank was damaged only but seems like in repairable condition. The fault was in faulty training ammo they used, someone fucked up and issued ammo that long ago lost it's expiration date and should be destroyed, heads did fall as far as I know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankenator Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Its been 25 or so years since I was in but I remember they were always very adamant about the cases not being removed after loading. Seems that they can swell in the breach if any moisture is in them then the heat or cool of the breach can cause them to swell more and bind in the chamber. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) So the problem is that the "case" lodges in the chamber and the extractor/ejector* tears the base off upon attempted case removal, letting the propellant spill back into the fighting compartment? *I am assuming such a thing exists that can operate without relying on the recoil process that would normally trigger case base ejection. Unlike on a rifle, you are not cycling a bolt/bolt carrier to unload and you are not taking the gun through its recoil cycle by some other means, - you are merely opening the breech. Edited September 17, 2016 by ChrisWerb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasler Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I had my loader remove plenty of rounds. Our standard practice back in 07 was to battle carry when we left the gate and remove the round when we got back in the wire. I only had one round swell in 15 months. For that one we just bell rammed it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) Rammed it out with something pushed down the barrel? A cleaning rod with an attachment? As I understand it, with artillery pieces this is done with a cleaning/ramrod with a special attachment, but in that case the projectile has been deliberately seated into the rifling - no rifling on M256. Edited September 17, 2016 by ChrisWerb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tankenator Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ChrisWerb said: So the problem is that the "case" lodges in the chamber and the extractor/ejector* tears the base off upon attempted case removal, letting the propellant spill back into the fighting compartment? *I am assuming such a thing exists that can operate without relying on the recoil process that would normally trigger case base ejection. Unlike on a rifle, you are not cycling a bolt/bolt carrier to unload and you are not taking the gun through its recoil cycle by some other means, - you are merely opening the breech. You misunderstand the operation of the breach. The breach is the mechanism of removal of the stub base, and when it opens, the ejector works to pull base out. It (i assume because I never investigated it when i was in) is actuated in typical usage by hydraulics in the recoil mechanism, but when you open it manually, you bypass the hydraulics and mechanically unlock the breech, and open it, moving the ejectors and pulling out the round/aftcap. In the beginning of this video you can see the ejectors to the left and right of the chamber in the early part of this video: Edited September 17, 2016 by tankenator added video 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) Thank you tankenator, I think I've got it thanks to your info and video. I have a 19th century Martini-Enfield rifle in my gun cabinet that works similarly to this. As the breech block drops it mechanically actuates the extractor/ejector (it functions the first or both depending on how fast you work the lever) that pivots on a pin, by pressing against its lower half and pulling the case out by its base with the top half. That seems to be conceptually similar to what happens here. Edited September 19, 2016 by ChrisWerb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted September 17, 2016 Members Share Posted September 17, 2016 (edited) In the Leo 2 you have a lever rod clipped to the underside of the breech block. You can insert it into a notch to open the breech lock. If you're lucky and the gun is in an elevated position, the cartridge will slide out a bit. If not you have an extractor whatchamacallit (semi-circular with a rim on one end, and a grip on the other) to pull on the cartridge. Normally you can pull it out, then grab it and bring it back into the ammo rack. If you're somewhat unlucky the base cap may rip from the nitrocellulose cartridge wall. If you rip it only a little bit, it's best to give the cartridge a pat, to close the breech and to fire it. If your strength and impatience exceeds your dexterity and/or your sense for the dangers involved you might rip off the base (almost) completely, at which point a gazillion of highly flammable pellets spill out of the cartridge, particularly if the gun is at an elevated position. Now, if you just fired an APFSDS that is still in the basket under the breech it may happen that one of the propellant pellet touches the still hot primer spike, catches fire, and the flame will probably set off a chain reaction where the rest of the propellant rapidly burns away (a.k.a. explodes in your face). Or you might have a tiny spark of static electricity. IOW, not a good thing. Edited September 18, 2016 by Ssnake 2, not 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) On 9/17/2016 at 11:59 AM, Ssnake said: In the Leo 3... the Leo 3... Leo 3... Tell me more about this ZukunftUberWunderPanzer? :P:P OK in all seriousness, US made rounds (at least) include a propellant containment bag to mitigate the hazards of changing ammunition types like that. Typically, I avoid the practice. I generally only do it when firing the current round would be ineffective or a waste, like shooting a HEAT into dense woods, firing Sabot at infantry, etc. I don't know if ProPE should simulate the random KABOOM!s but I look forward to the day I'm in my simulated Leo 3 ( ) and I give the order... "Loader, unload the HEAT and load a Sabot!" (Clankity clank................Riiiip....) "Oh, crap, uh, we're gonna have to just shoot this one...So, uh, HEAT UP!" Edited September 18, 2016 by Maj.Hans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I love the fact you can unload an L30 in SB Now that is a one way gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasler Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) On September 17, 2016 at 7:40 AM, ChrisWerb said: Rammed it out with something pushed down the barrel? A cleaning rod with an attachment? As I understand it, with artillery pieces this is done with a cleaning/ramrod with a special attachment, but in that case the projectile has been deliberately seated into the rifling - no rifling on M256. Ya it's the same concept. Instead of the cleaning brush you put a bell shaped attachment (bell rammer) on the end of the rod and push. It is only need when a round swells otherwise the loader just opens the breach manually and pulls the round out sometimes by hand or if he didn't get enough force opening with the round extractor tool Edited September 20, 2016 by Hasler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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