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ChrisWerb

Map Symbology Question

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single diagonal symbolizes the lance of light cav = recon in general

2 crossed lines symbolize the crossed rifles of the infantry

(at least thats how we where told ;-) )

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Or you can go with single vs double bandoliers.

 

Or single bandolier vs crossed straps to support thier load carrying equipment (that Infantry had from pre Napoleonic times to pretty much Vietnam era).

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There are some symbols in the British version of APP-6A that I am having trouble connecting with real world weapons. For example, small, medium and heavy gree launchers. I would guess a light GL is one mounted on a rifle or an M79/HK69 or perhaps even an M32. A heavy grenade launcher might be an HK GMG or Mk 47,  in which case what is a medium GL? I'm not sure how you would break ATGMs, AT guns or AT recoilless rifles down into light, medium and heavy.

 

Incidentally I find the UK version of APP-6A (this may not be the latest version) far easier to grasp than the original.

 

 

 

 

Edited by ChrisWerb

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So it depends - dare I say.

 

Often the weapon may have the same calibre but is classified according to its employment / accessories.

 

So let say the MG 3 (or if you want to pick an "entirely different weapon" try the MG 42 :) )

 

Carried in a fire team with a bipod and a few hundred round of ammo = LMG

 

Same weapon with a tripod and quite a bit more ammo = MMG

 

Same weapon with tripod, indirect fire sight, in a fortified position with vast quatinities of ammo = HMG

 

OR

 

It can be driven by calibre.

 

5.56mm Minimi = LMG

 

7.62mm MAG-58 = MMG

 

12.7mm  (0.50") M2HB = HMG

 

6 pdr AT gun = AT gun

 

17 pdr AT gun = medium AT gun

 

128mm AT Gun = heavy AT gun

 

As for the GLs, the GLA attached to a rifle (e.g. M203) isn't a independent weapon. So instead of a "Light " AGL symbol and a Light AT weapon symbol and a Rifle weapon symbol for a rifle fire team, you just mark the rifle team.

 

Your knoiwledge of the enemy tells you it comes with X by rifles, X by grenades, X by GLA, X light AT weapons, etc. 

 

By an large only independent crew served weapons rate their own symbol. Equipments integrated into a unit carry the unit symbol.

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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IOW, an underslung grenade launcher like the M203 may technically be a light mortar, but it doesn't turn an infantry unit into a mortar team. It's a mortar only if it has a base plate and forms a tripod. ;)

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The situation with MGs is only cloudy as to whether you rate GPMGs in light role as light or medium and whether you call water rifle calibre cooled guns like the Vickers and M1917A1 as medium or heavy. The only logical way is presumably to do it as you have and rely on calibres - 5.56/7.62/0.50 and 5.45/7.62/12.7, though this reflects a techical specification rather than role. With AT guns, you could argue that the abortive British 94mm  32 pounder was a heavy AT gun,but that never made it into service and 128mm ATGs died with the 3rd Reich - both pre-date NATO symbology, but it gets cloudy where you have Soviet AT guns. To begin with when they had 57mm, 85mm and 122mm which fits in well. They then went to 85mm and 100mm (retaining the 57mm in the ASU-57 for a while), and finally standardised on a 125mm towed gun (although I expect 100mm are still around in numbers). Is the 125mm medium or heavy? I would guess medium because MBTs with the same calibre gun are shown as medium.

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MBTs are MBTs.

 

You don't have light, medium and heavy MBTs in the real world (only phantasy lands like WoT, RT and AW use them).

 

If you want to catergorise MGs by calibre go ahead.

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I get what an MBT is at a conceptual level and know how it came about historically. However, the symbol normally used for them and the one in the example I gave is the one for "Medium" tank. There is no symbol for MBT in APP-6A. You gave calibre as a classification method for MGs and I think it's the only one that can be applied consistently.

Edited by ChrisWerb

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2 hours ago, ChrisWerb said:

The situation with MGs is only cloudy as to whether you rate GPMGs in light role as light or medium and whether you call water rifle calibre cooled guns like the Vickers and M1917A1 as medium or heavy. The only logical way is presumably to do it as you have and rely on calibres - 5.56/7.62/0.50 and 5.45/7.62/12.7, though this reflects a techical specification rather than role. With AT guns, you could argue that the abortive British 94mm  32 pounder was a heavy AT gun,but that never made it into service and 128mm ATGs died with the 3rd Reich - both pre-date NATO symbology, but it gets cloudy where you have Soviet AT guns. To begin with when they had 57mm, 85mm and 122mm which fits in well. They then went to 85mm and 100mm (retaining the 57mm in the ASU-57 for a while), and finally standardised on a 125mm towed gun (although I expect 100mm are still around in numbers). Is the 125mm medium or heavy? I would guess medium because MBTs with the same calibre gun are shown as medium.

 

Symbology is designed and are country specific. 

 

Every army has its standard equipment and uses for these and customize their symbology based on these factors.

Example :

In Indian Army : LMG is either Bren 7.62 or INSAS 5.56  and in almost all cases part of support team in a INF Section. 

Individual  LMG teams are rare. thus not denoted by its own symbol but as a Support Team Inf section symbol.

 

separation is done but is usually done during a battle based on Section cmdrs discretion. 

 

LMG in Indian army is a magazine fed mg. only

Role - Section support

 

Standard MMG : is FN MAG 7.62 - 3 man team. Map symbol BOX MMG -all belt fed MGs are classified as MMG are are always used to setup crossfire and are always mounted on tripod.

Role - area denial , cross fire

 

HMG are generally M2 browning or some russian variant. 

are rare but used for longer range engagement especially in border areas , they are mounted in bunkers. Symbol BOX HMG.

 

So you see map symbol are very country , army and role specific. You cannot use one symbology for all. 

 

 

as far as MBTs are concerned , a country or army has freedom to classify different types of tanks in its arsenal as Light , medium or heavy MBT. Specially if it has different types of MBT to fulfill different roles or are used for specific  theater during the same period. 

Historically example

Army might use AMX-13 in Mountains as its LightMBT in armoured units. 

while at the same time use T-55 as MBT in desert area. 

and PT-76 FOR marshy areas . 

 

Armies used the term Light , medium or heavy armour and not MBT. 

 

Again , its not country specific . Really depends on which army you're talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ashdivay

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There may well be something specific to the British Army that tells you which weapon qualifies as what. There are a few symbols in APP-6A (the original document) that are country specific. The point of NATO standardised symbols, you would think, would be to have a common understanding in, for example, a multi-national operation.

 

The British Army MG situation is (and serving BA members can correct me)

 

LSW - box fed version of L85xx series rifle designated L86xx - since re-roled to Sharpshooter Rifle (DMR)

LMG - FN Minimi Commando L110xx series (some SF had long barrelled early versions as L108xx and some Commandos have subsequently been refitted with longer barrels). Always used with integral bipod. L4xx BREN was previous LMG, last used in lieu of L7 by supporting arms such as Royal Artillery.

GMPG - FN MAG as L7xx series. Used with integral bipod, Formerly at section level until replaced by 2 x LSW which were then replaced by two Minimi

GPMG-SF Role (Sustained Fire Role) - FN MAG in sustained fire role with dial sight on oil buffered tripod (bipod generally left in situ but shoulder stock removed). Not sure where this sits in current light role infantry organisation

HMG - Browning M2HB QCB (US M2A1), typically with short barrel. Either on M3 tripod, or M63 four-legged AA pedestal (haven't seen the latter in a long time).

GMG - In the British army the H&K 40mm AGL is referred to as the "Grenade Machine Gun". Tripod mounted.

 

Note, all of above, except LSW, Minimi and SF roled GPMG are also found in vehicle mounted configurations.

 

The only vehicle currently rated as a tank or main battle tank in the British Army is the Challenger 2.

 

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