Bond_Villian Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 You have my interest! I am taking the plunge into the editor, looking at making an Afghan-Soviet scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bond_Villian Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Trying to figure out if its possible to simulate Afghan Government Forces ( 'DRA' at that time ) defecting during combat, with the result being they become allied with the Mujahideen forces. Beginning to think that maybe the scope of this scenario is too complex for me! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Well depends on how much you want to dive into the detail, but there are conditions that will determine if a 3rd party (say Green) will be allied to Blue or Red. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Kingtiger said: How about a Ukrainian BTG counterattacking DPR/RU forces east of Donetsk in autumn weather? Â Well the location varied, but that was Rolling Thunder '14. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingtiger Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 28 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:  Well the location varied, but that was Rolling Thunder '14. Yes I know, I was there  What I was writing was a small advertisement for a Russian equiptment mission I am doing and will be played with Kanium when its done on the KURSK map making it look like Eastern Ukraine  0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Or a conflict set between two fictional African states. You could go old school T-55 v T-62 and make use of Technical's and other less sophisticated platforms. Mix and match different types of platforms. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 4:08 AM, Kingtiger said: How about a Ukrainian BTG counterattacking DPR/RU forces east of Donetsk in autumn weather?  Pretty Cool ! More Info please ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 9:23 AM, Marko said: Or a conflict set between two fictional African states. You could go old school T-55 v T-62 and make use of Technical's and other less sophisticated platforms. Mix and match different types of platforms.  or even a UN force navigating complicated political situation in a african country. Sudan ??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, ashdivay said:  or even a UN force navigating complicated political situation in a african country. Sudan ??? Interesting idea it would take some clever scripting With strict rules of engagement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I've been thinking about this thread.  I think Ash makes a good point - we do have some very repetitive gameplay and scenario types.  At the same time, we need to understand that Steel Beasts is an armor crewman trainer/simulator. Steel Beasts cannot effectively depict combined arms combat and operations at the level of DCS or ArmA, therefore, we are limited to armored/mounted scenarios. It's not a bad thing if you're into armored combat, but there's not much else to do if you think the current style is 'gamey'.  Regarding the Donetsk example above: Sure, the Donetsk had/has (?) armored combat, but a majority of the combat was small scale infantry fighting in/around the airport district. Not something we can do effectively in Steel Beasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on. A few km SW of Hamlien  It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast. (I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)  And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do. (I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 20 hours ago, Marko said: Interesting idea it would take some clever scripting With strict rules of engagement  I think something similar was done in the past. But i am thinking a UN Armored Patrol moving to liberate a group villages but evey-time a CMdr needs to evaluate the situation and decide weather to engage or not. each engagement will have certain effects and scoring..........lot of possibilities to consider.....  7 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said: I've been thinking about this thread.  I think Ash makes a good point - we do have some very repetitive gameplay and scenario types.  At the same time, we need to understand that Steel Beasts is an armor crewman trainer/simulator. Steel Beasts cannot effectively depict combined arms combat and operations at the level of DCS or ArmA, therefore, we are limited to armored/mounted scenarios. It's not a bad thing if you're into armored combat, but there's not much else to do if you think the current style is 'gamey'.  Regarding the Donetsk example above: Sure, the Donetsk had/has (?) armored combat, but a majority of the combat was small scale infantry fighting in/around the airport district. Not something we can do effectively in Steel Beasts. even without full scale Combined arms i feel we can possibility bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture.  I am considering current middle-eastern engagements as a template.    5 hours ago, Hedgehog said: I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on. A few km SW of Hamlien  It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast. (I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)  And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do. (I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in) thats great idea Hedgehog ,  lets pump some gas into it and make it roll. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ashdivay said: I think something similar was done in the past. But i am thinking a UN Armored Patrol moving to liberate a group villages but evey-time a CMdr needs to evaluate the situation and decide weather to engage or not. each engagement will have certain effects and scoring..........lot of possibilities to consider.....  Yep have a search for Vigilant Guardian.  Most of these things have been done before.  Edited November 8, 2016 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, ashdivay said: bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture There haven't been many armor battles in the past 30 years. In most cases, warfare has evolved into an asymmetrical hybrid, where infantry forces are the dominant factor - something we just cant do with Steel Beasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 hours ago, ashdivay said: even without full scale Combined arms i feel we can possibility bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture.  You need to be careful here.  Our Rolling Thunder set based on the Ukraine was instantly diverted as some sort of political statement / offended sensitivities - even though the usual disclaimers were made up front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, ashdivay said: thats great idea Hedgehog ,  lets pump some gas into it and make it roll.  The "tricky" bit is the logic behind it.  And the battle "Plan" behind the red side. Well sort of. Edited November 9, 2016 by Hedgehog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 11/8/2016 at 7:07 PM, Gibsonm said:  You need to be careful here.  Our Rolling Thunder set based on the Ukraine was instantly diverted as some sort of political statement / offended sensitivities - even though the usual disclaimers were made up front.  Political statement / Offended sensitivities ?  I think if a designer maintains balance rhetoric in scenario briefing. it will work out. Other than that , hiding from reality is not the way forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 11/8/2016 at 5:34 PM, Apocalypse 31 said: There haven't been many armor battles in the past 30 years. In most cases, warfare has evolved into an asymmetrical hybrid, where infantry forces are the dominant factor - something we just cant do with Steel Beasts.  how can we achieve asymmetrical hybrid scenario in SB ?  perhaps scenarios where players have to fulfill rolls of AR crews supporting AI/Player controlled inf. Do we really need ARMA style inf controls ? in my opinion no.    0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashdivay Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 11/8/2016 at 9:37 AM, Hedgehog said: I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on. A few km SW of Hamlien  It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast. (I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)  And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do. (I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in)  Hi do you have a scen we can test ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsmandk Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 32 minutes ago, ashdivay said:  how can we achieve asymmetrical hybrid scenario in SB ?  perhaps scenarios where players have to fulfill rolls of AR crews supporting AI/Player controlled inf. Do we really need ARMA style inf controls ? in my opinion no.    Arma style no. But the option to manually fire at weapons like Gustav, rpg or similar. AI inf is getting better but just need a few tweaks and I could live with it as it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, ashdivay said:  Political statement / Offended sensitivities ?  I think if a designer maintains balance rhetoric in scenario briefing. it will work out. Other than that , hiding from reality is not the way forward.  Well you'd think so, wouldn't you - but just read the thread from the Rolling Thunder 14 event.  A whole bunch of people got upset and made accusations that we were exploiting people's suffering, etc. and made a whole bunch of political comments.  People want something different and then complain when they get it (another example is the militia scenario in Rolling Thunder 15 - an invader's convoy is attacked by AS stay behind parties and militia). Edited November 10, 2016 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 24 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:  Well you'd think so, wouldn't you - but just read the thread from the Rolling Thunder 14 event.  A whole bunch of people got upset and made accusations that we were exploiting people's suffering, etc. and made a whole bunch of political comments.  People want something different and then complain when they get it (another example is the militia scenario in Rolling Thunder 15 - an invader's convoy is attacked by AS stay behind parties and militia). I think your post requires a response as i was the main Antagonist in relation to this issue  I stand by my objection.  Real people were were being slaughtered at that time in that country.  In a real world conflict not to dissimilar to your campaign.( Russian involvement etc)  I do accept it was not your intention when you created the campaign.  I also appreciate the amount of man hours you must of put in to it to creating the campaign. So odviously you did not want to see it cancelled but you could have made changes  in response to what was happening in that region.. It was in bad taste under the circumstances IMO.  My odjection was not directed at you personally or the other participants I had no interest at all in the politics of the conflict neither did i express any at the time. And i dont recall any politically motivated posts.  0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 6 hours ago, ashdivay said: Do we really need ARMA style inf controls ? in my opinion no. I agree - but we need more than we have now.  I can't imagine what this game would be like with playable infantry - the depth of scenarios would be amazing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 So this is the part I don't get.  Russia going into the Ukraine is:  1 hour ago, Marko said: I think your post requires a response as i was the main Antagonist in relation to this issue  I stand by my objection.  Real people were were being slaughtered at that time in that country.  In a real world conflict not to dissimilar to your campaign.( Russian involvement etc)  But failed African states are an "interesting idea"  On 08/11/2016 at 10:51 AM, ashdivay said: or even a UN force navigating complicated political situation in a african country. Sudan ???  On 08/11/2016 at 11:17 AM, Marko said: Interesting idea it would take some clever scripting With strict rules of engagement  I suspect more people have died to date in the Sudan than in the Ukraine. The Sudan debacle is also happening currently, as its a "real world conflict".  People died/suffered in Sudan, Rwanda, the Congo, Ivory Coast, Angola, the Arab Spring in Libya, ... but apparently they are OK as scenario subjects?  Its almost sounds like (and I hope this isn't your intent) that if its close to home, that's bad but if its further way that's OK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 2:23 PM, Marko said: Or a conflict set between two fictional African states. You could go old school T-55 v T-62 and make use of Technical's and other less sophisticated platforms. Mix and match different types of platforms.  7 minutes ago, Gibsonm said: So this is the part I don't get.  Russia going into the Ukraine is:   But failed African states are an "interesting idea"    I suspect more people have died to date in the Sudan than in the Ukraine. The Sudan debacle is also happening currently, as its a "real world conflict".  People died/suffered in Sudan, Rwanda, the Congo, Ivory Coast, Angola, the Arab Spring in Libya, ... but apparently they are OK as scenario subjects?  Its almost sounds like (and I hope this isn't your intent) that if its close to home, that's bad but if its further way that's OK.  You should have read my previous post in its entirety. Especially the part about fictional African states. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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