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Any Non-Gamey MP Ops ?


ashdivay

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28 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Well the location varied, but that was Rolling Thunder '14.

Yes I know, I was there ;)

 

What I was writing was a small advertisement for a Russian equiptment mission I am doing and will be played with Kanium when its done on the KURSK map making it look like Eastern Ukraine :) 

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On 11/6/2016 at 9:23 AM, Marko said:

Or a conflict set between two fictional African states.

You could go old school T-55 v T-62 and make use of Technical's and other less sophisticated platforms. 

Mix and match different types of platforms.

 

or even a UN force navigating complicated political situation in a african country. 

Sudan ???

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I've been thinking about this thread.

 

I think Ash makes a good point - we do have some very repetitive gameplay and scenario types.

 

At the same time, we need to understand that Steel Beasts is an armor crewman trainer/simulator. Steel Beasts cannot effectively depict combined arms combat and operations at the level of DCS or ArmA, therefore, we are limited to armored/mounted scenarios. It's not a bad thing if you're into armored combat, but there's not much else to do if you think the current style is 'gamey'.

 

Regarding the Donetsk example above: Sure, the Donetsk had/has (?) armored combat, but a majority of the combat was small scale infantry fighting in/around the airport district. Not something we can do effectively in Steel Beasts. 

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I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on.

A few km SW of Hamlien

 

It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast.

(I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)

 

And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do.

(I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in)

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20 hours ago, Marko said:

Interesting idea it would take some clever scripting

With strict rules of engagement

 

I think something similar was done in the past. But i am thinking a UN Armored Patrol moving to liberate a group villages but evey-time a CMdr needs to evaluate the situation and decide weather to engage or not. each engagement will have certain effects and scoring..........lot of possibilities to consider.....

 

7 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

I've been thinking about this thread.

 

I think Ash makes a good point - we do have some very repetitive gameplay and scenario types.

 

At the same time, we need to understand that Steel Beasts is an armor crewman trainer/simulator. Steel Beasts cannot effectively depict combined arms combat and operations at the level of DCS or ArmA, therefore, we are limited to armored/mounted scenarios. It's not a bad thing if you're into armored combat, but there's not much else to do if you think the current style is 'gamey'.

 

Regarding the Donetsk example above: Sure, the Donetsk had/has (?) armored combat, but a majority of the combat was small scale infantry fighting in/around the airport district. Not something we can do effectively in Steel Beasts. 

even without full scale Combined arms i feel we can possibility bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture.  

I am considering current middle-eastern engagements as a template. 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on.

A few km SW of Hamlien

 

It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast.

(I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)

 

And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do.

(I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in)

thats great idea Hedgehog ,  lets pump some gas into it and make it roll. 

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14 minutes ago, ashdivay said:

I think something similar was done in the past. But i am thinking a UN Armored Patrol moving to liberate a group villages but evey-time a CMdr needs to evaluate the situation and decide weather to engage or not. each engagement will have certain effects and scoring..........lot of possibilities to consider.....

 

Yep have a search for Vigilant Guardian.

 

Most of these things have been done before.

 

Edited by Gibsonm
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1 hour ago, ashdivay said:

bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture

There haven't been many armor battles in the past 30 years. In most cases, warfare has evolved into an asymmetrical hybrid, where infantry forces are the dominant factor - something we just cant do with Steel Beasts. 

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3 hours ago, ashdivay said:

even without full scale Combined arms i feel we can possibility bring more diverse , non-typical but actual real world scenarios in picture. 

 

You need to be careful here.

 

Our Rolling Thunder set based on the Ukraine was instantly diverted as some sort of political statement / offended sensitivities - even though the usual disclaimers were made up front.

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On 11/8/2016 at 7:07 PM, Gibsonm said:

 

You need to be careful here.

 

Our Rolling Thunder set based on the Ukraine was instantly diverted as some sort of political statement / offended sensitivities - even though the usual disclaimers were made up front.

 

Political statement / Offended sensitivities ? 

 

I think if a designer maintains balance rhetoric in scenario briefing. it will work out. 

Other than that , hiding from reality is not the way forward. 

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On 11/8/2016 at 5:34 PM, Apocalypse 31 said:

There haven't been many armor battles in the past 30 years. In most cases, warfare has evolved into an asymmetrical hybrid, where infantry forces are the dominant factor - something we just cant do with Steel Beasts. 

 

how can we achieve asymmetrical hybrid scenario in SB ? 

 

perhaps scenarios where players have to fulfill rolls of AR crews supporting AI/Player controlled inf. 

Do we really need ARMA style inf controls ? in my opinion no. 

 

 

 

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On 11/8/2016 at 9:37 AM, Hedgehog said:

I have a BAOR vs CCCP Set in the early 60s I'm working on.

A few km SW of Hamlien

 

It's pretty big forces wise but then that's because it'll get very killy very quickly, I anticipate stuff will die, fast.

(I'm thinking a spawning mechanism will be needed to keep the on map numbers down.)

 

And I aiming to keep it dynamic, so it'll react to what you as a player do.

(I.E. if your defense suffers, the soviets ID a weak point and pour resources in)

 

Hi do you have a scen we can test ?

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32 minutes ago, ashdivay said:

 

how can we achieve asymmetrical hybrid scenario in SB ? 

 

perhaps scenarios where players have to fulfill rolls of AR crews supporting AI/Player controlled inf. 

Do we really need ARMA style inf controls ? in my opinion no. 

 

 

 

Arma style no. But the option to manually fire at weapons like Gustav, rpg or similar. AI inf is getting better but just need a few tweaks and I could live with it as it is. 

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5 hours ago, ashdivay said:

 

Political statement / Offended sensitivities ? 

 

I think if a designer maintains balance rhetoric in scenario briefing. it will work out. 

Other than that , hiding from reality is not the way forward. 

 

Well you'd think so, wouldn't you - but just read the thread from the Rolling Thunder 14 event.

 

A whole bunch of people got upset and made accusations that we were exploiting people's suffering, etc. and made a whole bunch of political comments.

 

People want something different and then complain when they get it (another example is the militia scenario in Rolling Thunder 15 - an invader's convoy is attacked by AS stay behind parties and militia).

Edited by Gibsonm
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24 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Well you'd think so, wouldn't you - but just read the thread from the Rolling Thunder 14 event.

 

A whole bunch of people got upset and made accusations that we were exploiting people's suffering, etc. and made a whole bunch of political comments.

 

People want something different and then complain when they get it (another example is the militia scenario in Rolling Thunder 15 - an invader's convoy is attacked by AS stay behind parties and militia).

I think your post requires a response as i was the main Antagonist in relation to this issue

 

I stand by my objection.

 Real people were were being slaughtered at that time in that country.

 In a real world conflict not to dissimilar to your campaign.( Russian involvement etc)

 I do accept it was not your intention when you created the campaign.

 I also appreciate the amount of man hours you must of put in to it to creating the campaign.

So odviously you did not want to see it cancelled but you could have made changes  in response to what was happening in that region..

It was in bad taste under the circumstances IMO.

 My odjection was not directed at you personally or the other participants

I had no interest at all in the politics of the conflict neither did i express any at the time.

And i dont recall any politically motivated posts.

 

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So this is the part I don't get.

 

Russia going into the Ukraine is:

 

1 hour ago, Marko said:

I think your post requires a response as i was the main Antagonist in relation to this issue

 

I stand by my objection.

 Real people were were being slaughtered at that time in that country.

 In a real world conflict not to dissimilar to your campaign.( Russian involvement etc)

 

But failed African states are an "interesting idea"

 

On 08/11/2016 at 10:51 AM, ashdivay said:

or even a UN force navigating complicated political situation in a african country. 

Sudan ???

 

On 08/11/2016 at 11:17 AM, Marko said:

Interesting idea it would take some clever scripting

With strict rules of engagement

 

I suspect more people have died to date in the Sudan than in the Ukraine. The Sudan debacle is also happening currently, as its a "real world conflict".

 

People died/suffered in Sudan, Rwanda, the Congo, Ivory Coast, Angola, the Arab Spring in Libya, ... but apparently they are OK as scenario subjects?

 

Its almost sounds like (and I hope this isn't your intent) that if its close to home, that's bad but if its further way that's OK.

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On 11/6/2016 at 2:23 PM, Marko said:

Or a conflict set between two fictional African states.

You could go old school T-55 v T-62 and make use of Technical's and other less sophisticated platforms. 

Mix and match different types of platforms.

 

7 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

So this is the part I don't get.

 

Russia going into the Ukraine is:

 

 

But failed African states are an "interesting idea"

 

 

 

I suspect more people have died to date in the Sudan than in the Ukraine. The Sudan debacle is also happening currently, as its a "real world conflict".

 

People died/suffered in Sudan, Rwanda, the Congo, Ivory Coast, Angola, the Arab Spring in Libya, ... but apparently they are OK as scenario subjects?

 

Its almost sounds like (and I hope this isn't your intent) that if its close to home, that's bad but if its further way that's OK.

 You should have read my previous post in its entirety.

Especially the part about fictional African states. 

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