Jump to content
Nercon

ETA on terrain patch?

Recommended Posts

Quote

I don't like this at all. Of course I understand that this is a business and people don't work for free, but that patch was promised as to be included in 4.x without any more money added.

I understand and respect that sentiment. At the same time things didn't go as planned. At all. When we made these promises we expected to be able to release the terrain update about half a year or nine months later, tops, and that turned out to be horribly wrong. And yes, "our problem". At the same time there was more and more entirely new development that was piling up which we couldn't separate from the new terrain development, and here's where things get complicated. As far as I am concerned, we have reduced the price of the upgrade from the usual $40.- for a two-year step (which actually took three years) by $10.-, to make good for this slip-up; $15.- for preorders, as soon as our web shop's ready to take them in. At the same time we completely reworked the lighting (yes, that's not quite on the level of "replace DirectX 9" but still a massive improvement), we substantially improved the AI (at least as far as pathfinding is concerned), we replaced the old and inaccurate model of high explosives and fragmentation effects ... and we now have a model that can handle thousands of individual fragments, each with different properties, a model that takes account of objects to reflect pressure waves (or not, in the case of hedges).

 

I suggest to "withhold judgment until the facts are in", as a certain General Turgidson once said in one of the better movies ever made. A lot of the work that went into this upgrade is somewhat abstract, or at least requires an in-depth review by, say, the one or other video feature. For example, AI that works is entirely unspectacular and as such "unsellable". At the same time it will take the edge off of some common frustration, so it's the kind of value that you discover only after the purchase. In a similar way, what's the value of a better HE model? Sure, you can have more fancy visualization in the AAR about what happened, but at the end of the day it remains a somewhat abstract thing. However, what's the value of more accurate simulation in general, where would you draw the line? Maybe simplified ballistics would also be okay. Do we really need weather simulation? Crosswind? There's a lot of things that could be simplified. But Steel Beasts has always been about going the extra mile for more accuracy in simulation results. At the end of the day the satisfaction with a simulation largely stems from the sum of all things that were done right, less the sum of all things done wrong, from knowing that the amount of BS that you encountered is substantially lower than what you experience in your average shooter game. And the new HE model shifts the balance more into the "things done right" direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Japo32 said:

 

Also is totally unfair if at the end one person that comes from 2.0 or 3.0 only pays 40$ to upgrade the version to 4.1. I had to pay 40$ + XX$ for the same 4.1 version (not a 5.0). Until when we are going to have free updates of this "new" product? as maybe soon we could have the 5.0 and be charged again? (this is a 4.1x version. Not new 5.0) 

Again, I repeat that I understand that devs don't work for free and was a big ammount of work done, but it was promised for free as features of 4.X, and pay for those "free" features plus a rework of plants and framerate, don't make me happy at all.

As I said, I would pay 40$ happily if it would be a dramatic change from the very old dx9.0 to dx11-12 or Vulkan, but I don't desire new tanks added, and of course I think we never should be charged for frame improvements (really 4.023 goes really bad in some situations with good computers.. and that is not our fault).

 

I had to say it. 

Thanks.

Actually if you think about it, it is fair.  those upgrading from 2.0 or 3.0 or even now 4.023 already have licenses, so why should they have to pay for the license again? Look at it like this:, initially you are paying for the license and the software.   Once you have the license, now your only paying for the software.  How is that unfair?  Remember, those of us upgrading already paid the full price.  If I already have a license ( I have the lifetime one myself) Why would I want to pay for it again?  I mean, that might not be how it actually goes by esim games, but that is how I look at it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I've to say that I am more than happy that eSim is still developing the Sim. It's a niche product that does not sell in large quantities (apart from the professional product of course) so I'm more than willing to pay for updates after a certain time interval to support the development. Just look at how the game went along from it's initial release.

It sure is a nightmare to refactor a codebase with that amount of technical depth and that amount of history. I really feel for the guys doing it and paying 40$ once in a while to support them is something I'm willing to do. Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

30 Euro is ok for me 😉

 

Sorry, i`m on the run: Is there a realease date now? 

 

Thanx, Hafer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I´ll put it this way...

 

For some of us flight sim fans, which Japo32 is a developer for, the transition from one version to another (be it X-Plane or P3D), has meant a PAID for upgrade for most of the payware airframes.  In return we got a slightly better performance, with minor addition to the over all package (version).  Which means that those of us who had alot of quality payware add-ons had to re-buy those add-ons, be it full price or at a discount if we wanted such payware in our newly installed version of whatever sim (X-Plane/P3D).  So it´s funny to even read a rant like that coming from such a background.  We all have bad days thought...

 

--

Edited by Red2112

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Haferja said:

30 Euro is ok for me 😉

 

Sorry, i`m on the run: Is there a realease date now? 

 

Thanx, Hafer

No.

 

Just a window between July and September.

 

Edited by Gibsonm
Typed the wrong month.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Ssnake said:

No, the release date is "July".

Sorry for the error. Earlier post corrected to avoid future mis-quoting.

 

Edited by Gibsonm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...except that a date before July 1st is impossible, and July 1st is ambitious, due to a number of lead times for certain items. So I'd rather not get fixated on a specific day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ssnake said:

...except that a date before July 1st is impossible, and July 1st is ambitious, due to a number of lead times for certain items. So I'd rather not get fixated on a specific day.

OK wiggle room added. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2019 at 5:57 PM, Red2112 said:

I´ll put it this way...

 

For some of us flight sim fans, which Japo32 is a developer for, the transition from one version to another (be it X-Plane or P3D), has meant a PAID for upgrade for most of the payware airframes.  In return we got a slightly better performance, with minor addition to the over all package (version).  Which means that those of us who had alot of quality payware add-ons had to re-buy those add-ons, be it full price or at a discount if we wanted such payware in our newly installed version of whatever sim (X-Plane/P3D).  So it´s funny to even read a rant like that coming from such a background.  We all have bad days thought...

 

--

When I released the CRJ200 for xplane11 I didn't ask anybody to pay me again, and I made changes to make it better. I never ask for money when there is not a big change-upgrade in my products, and the CRJ200 came from xplane9 with lots of minor changes for some years. My rest of the planes are the same.

I understand that someone ask you money from version to version, but not when same version.

 

I paid 80$ per the 3.XX version when it was in sale

Then paid 40$ for the 4.0 to upgrade.

Now I will need to pay XX $ to have a 4.1X version... and maybe soon another time to change from 4.XX to 5.0.

 

Sorry but I don't see it fair. Specially when the main feature that have the 4.1X version was promised to be included in a free update when the 4.0 was released.

Of course everyone can have their opinion thinking that is good that they are still developing. I know that lots of people want to buy the sim but they don't do it because it is very expensive (more is DCS, but they pay each module independently and when they want). 

Maybe I will think wait for the 5.0 version to just pay the 40$ only (if it is the same price) and don't pay twice for it). At the end I am almost not playing with anyone, because there is no people that has this sim because the price it has. So it becomes a niche.

 

Edited by Japo32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iam not saying you asked for more money for your upgrades when a transition was inbound for X-Plane 11. But you know as well as I do that big named developers have asked for upgrade fees for newer platform upgrades.  Some of them even asked a whole new purchase in order for there module to work in a newer version.  I had to re-buy most (almost all) of my add-ons in my hanger if I wanted to fly in P3Dv4.xx (v4.5), which is the worst case scenario.

 

In some cases, the version does not even justify a new purchase, but that´s how this hobby is.  Some are cool about it (iFly Soft) and don´t charge you for a upgrade, some do. In most cases we don´t even get anything NEW with the recent version, It´s mostly tweaks and bug fixes with some added BS that dosent justify the whole price. But that´s how it is, and we both know that.

 

I understand your view point Japo, we both bought SB at about the same time, and yes we were supposed to get the update free, but things happen, and the price wont be as if it was a full upgrade (for those who have v4.0) form what I understand.  Aside from that, I personally like eSim and what they offer as a whole, so giving them a small fee for the effort of re-building the terrain engine (if only that), is fine with me.  Plus the new added stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I think you need to keep in mind that this is more than a terrain update.  You could say that it is the biggest component of this upgrade, but what would it take for it not to be?  The entire world that SB exists in is being replaced.   We could have 20+ new playable vehicles(there is not) in this upgrade, with the terrain.  Would the vehicles be a "bigger" part of the update?   Really hard to top a complete replacement of the world.   So to call it a "Terrain patch", or "Terrain upgrade", is fair, and not fair at the same time.  

 

As sSnake has stated, this is MORE than just a terrain update.  Its MORE than just bug fixes and improvements.  There is still more to be shown, and perhaps it might be better for you to view those things as the justification for $'s, everything that isn't terrain related.   Had this been only a terrain update, with some bug fixes, well that would have been a dick move(to ask for $).  And we know that, so we added more.   Stuff that would have normally rolled into another major update.   The reality is, and this is a fact, you guys are going to get stuff that you would have not gotten until a later date, BECAUSE we had to delay the terrain.   I think once all is revealed, the vast majority of you will be pleased with what you are getting for your money.   And if it not, that's fair too.       

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm good to pay for support the development of one of my top 5 games. And I'm from a third world country with a very low monthly income. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're very generous with our upgrade grace period. You'll be able to upgrade to version 4.1 if you still have nothing but a version 2.6 license from 2011. That means, with a 4.0 license you can probably wait another five years before an upgrade without an increase in price. Nobody is forcing anyone at gunpoint to plunk down bucks for an upgrade that doesn't convince you. All I'm asking for is an open mind as far as all the other stuff is concerned, and then to decide if all that other stuff is worth $25.-

If not, then don't. No hard feelings. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I simply do not see a problem with a small fee!

 

I remember a simulation that cost $120 ( in the early (2000s) and every December there was a new version for, wait for it, $120. If you didn't buy it you, lost all future user created add-ons. If you bought it, you had to upgrade most of what you had created. I think I lasted one upgrade before abandoning that sim.

 

Steelbeasts is great, I wish I had found it earlier! They are doing a great job and are not asking for much money!

Edited by ssidiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well.. the only thing I desire then is that extra price is low enough, because if it is a extra 40$ then I would preffer esim would call it 5.0 as we could have more extra updates for free (??)

And I hope (and I don't think they are going to do it) that infantery can be managed with WASD and mouse pointing method with shift to run as an FPS game (game!!!! nooooo!!! I start hearing...), instead as a vehicle as it is right now. Of course this is an armor simulator, but there is also infantry around to manage, and is a pain to use it without the map paths.

 

Also I hope one day eSim games would allow buy previous version of SteelBeasts (3.x now) by 80$ for always to let me have more people around to play with. Right now I only can play with US people and Australians, beeing out of bed up to 6 am. The people that are around me are not so much to coincide (2 or 3 people that I know. And I am introduced very well in different simulators communities). Usually people that are interested just buy a month fee and because there is no community around they don't come back to play, so they loose their month even without playing with anyone online.

80$ is still high for lot of people, but at least they will have the sim forever and can extend their online matches to start producing a community background. I personally would put it for 60$ to make it more popular (the old version)

 

Thanks.

Edited by Japo32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote it before, I'll write it again: The upgrade fee will be $25.-  for those who preorder, substantially less than the $40.- you keep writing about.

And those who own a CodeMeter stick with any license of SB Pro PE on it can always order an "old upgrade" which includes a version 3.0 license. For, get ready for it, $80.-

And that would include a 4.1 license as well.

 

We're not selling SB Pro PE 3.0 as a separate item because we don't want to sow confusion by adding more and more options. Arguably there's too much choice in our web shop already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Havent been around in awhile.Any vids of the new stuff or changes as of late?

Edit:I just saw the cratering demo vid.

Anything else out there? 

Edited by mpow66m
Sleeping

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, mpow66m said:

Havent been around in awhile.Any vids of the new stuff or changes as of late?

Edit:I just saw the cratering demo vid.

Anything else out there? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mpow66m said:

Havent been around in awhile.Any vids of the new stuff or changes as of late?

Edit:I just saw the cratering demo vid.

Anything else out there? 

A bit of a summary to date (links to Genny's various assorted videos):

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...