Members Ssnake Posted December 4, 2020 Members Share Posted December 4, 2020 Quote What does that even mean? 3 hours ago, Scrapper_511 said: The interviewee (Joel Billings?) said that it’s the scale where range still matters but unit-facing does not. Except that with heavy units, it always does. Tactical results are highly granular. With the approach "facing doesn't matter" and a 10m grid map you couldn't get adequate results when simulating the battle of Termopylae. You couldn't simulate the glider attack on Eben Emael, or the allied thrust into Iraq 2003. You could simulate nothing where history shows a highly slanted outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 5 hours ago, Ssnake said: Except that with heavy units, it always does. Tactical results are highly granular. With the approach "facing doesn't matter" and a 10m grid map you couldn't get adequate results when simulating the battle of Termopylae. You couldn't simulate the glider attack on Eben Emael, or the allied thrust into Iraq 2003. You could simulate nothing where history shows a highly slanted outcome. Exactly....and that's what happens when developers have selective application of realism and abstraction in their games. And one of the many reasons why Southern Storm won't ever see my hard drive, and Red Storm will never see it again. Let's not even get into the ridiculous under-performance of NATO equipment versus Warsaw equipment. Thermals and advanced optics? Nope, M1's still get a 40% hit rate. I don't understand grognards and their obsession with Flashpoint Campaigns. I do not think it is a good game at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirzayev Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) The idea of unequal turns based on degradation of Mission Command systems was a novel one in Red Storm. The issues were that you couldn't issue broad orders to your HQ's direct subordinates (like you would in real life) with this mode active. Having to move each and every Platoon when you are a Division Commander is tedious to say the least. Add in ridiculously long turn resolutions (I don't need to see two scout platoons shooting at each other for 5 minutes straight and accomplishing nothing in terms of casualties) and bizarre combat results (a platoon of Avengers in a prepared defensive position being destroyed by a flight of Mi-24s with zero helos hit) made it a complete disappointment. I know some people like it. I don't understand why. I honestly think that Halls of Montezuma from 1987 has done one of the best jobs of simulating you being at a higher HQ level. You give orders to your subordinate unit HQs, and they fight it from there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halls_of_Montezuma:_A_Battle_History_of_the_U.S._Marine_Corps Edited December 4, 2020 by Mirzayev 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Usually Grand Tactical is at a Divisional level, which in turn also dictates hexes (terrain) and movement being at a larger scale as well as turns. So a turn can represent a full day, and a hex 10 miles for example. MMP has a great series called GTS (Grand Tactical Series)... MMP GTS: https://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/16/Default.aspx Red Edited December 5, 2020 by Red2112 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 5, 2020 Author Share Posted December 5, 2020 On 11/27/2020 at 8:37 AM, stormrider_sp said: Thank you,! I've been trying this a lot lately. Very interesting! Do you know of any similar game, board or computer, cold war, that plays on battalion level? I have this in my to buy list, but it´s naval warfare... Another on my list is 1985 Deadly Northern Lights (I have Less Then Sixty Miles from the same pub/dev.)... Thin Red Line Games: https://trlgames.com/1985-deadly-northern-lights/ Red 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 5, 2020 Members Share Posted December 5, 2020 If a hex represents 10 miles, it can't be "tactical". That's the frontage of two battalions, IOW, we're well into the "operations" scale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Wargaming companies know that if they call it operational, they lose a specific audience. If they call it "grand" tactical, they can bring in people that think they want a tactical game, and even people more inclined to an operational-level game. And as was stated in the interview, the companies think that by adding grand to the category, they can get away from armor facing, which adds a level of complication to programming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 5, 2020 Members Share Posted December 5, 2020 Yeah, fine - so it's marketing nonsense. Well, these are companies too, if that's what it takes to survive, that's what they'll do. Not sure however if semi-deceptive labeling strategies are the path to long-term success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 In my experience, the DIVISION is usually the highest tactical echelon. The Corps is generally the Land Component Command and deals with the operational aspects. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_William Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Flashpoint Campaigns developer (and long-time SBPro player) here. The game series uses a 500m hex scale, with unit counters typically representing platoons. The game does take into account facing (and front / flank / hull / turret / top armor). However, the player, as the commander issuing orders from his Brigade/Division HQ, does not control the unit (vehicle) facing. The game supports scenarios from 4 up to 24hrs, which allow for larger maneuvers where forward elements probe and fight for several hours before the main body arrives to complete the mission The game series goes back all the way to Simulations Canada's 'Main Battle Tank: Central Germany' (1989, Amiga/Apple II), which also described itself as 'modern grand tactical armoured combat'. William 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 10 hours ago, _William said: The game does take into account facing (and front / flank / hull / turret / top armor). However, the player, as the commander issuing orders from his Brigade/Division HQ, does not control the unit (vehicle) facing. William Thanks for clarifying, William. I didn't mean to imply that armor facing was not taken into account. Rather, I meant Rob Crandall was speaking in terms of game scale and the scope of player control. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 VR Designs Shadow Empire is now availble on Steam. On sale on both platforms (Matrix Games and Steam) at 20% off... Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1154840/Shadow_Empire/ Matrix Games: https://www.matrixgames.com/game/shadow-empire If you buy it at Matrix Games you do get a Steam key aswell. Red 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Game looks good- I like the setting (with Aliens turned off) But, wow...that is a LOT to grasp. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said: Game looks good- I like the setting (with Aliens turned off) But, wow...that is a LOT to grasp. Yeap, but at least one can´t say he´s not getting his moneys worth with this game. 4X games (hybrid in this case) tend to be deep so expect a big learning curve. Iam thinking about this one, will see, still have quite some time before the Matrix sale is over which usually ends the 2nd of January. Edited December 6, 2020 by Red2112 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Not quite a wargame but nevertheless it has me intrigued. With Phantom Brigade you can anticipate your enemies moves in a 5 second timeline and plan your strategy ahead. Quite unique game IMHO... Home site: https://braceyourselfgames.com/press/phantom-brigade/ On EA and only availlable at Epic store for now, will also be on Steam later on next year. Red 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) https://store.steampowered.com/app/1489630/Carrier_Command_2/ Day 1 buy for me. Online COOP This look MUCH better than the one that Bohemia released a few years ago. Edited December 15, 2020 by Apocalypse 31 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 15, 2020 Author Share Posted December 15, 2020 The Bohemia version was very buggy. Let´s hope 2021 honors the sim and warfare community. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 Good news... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Saw that Combat Mission Black Sea is out on Steam now. No difference in the game other than the traditionally nightmarish patching and updating process is hopefully simplified. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1502380/Combat_Mission_Black_Sea/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Finally here! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 hours ago, stormrider_sp said: Finally here! That´s great, Iam very happy that you were able to get a copy! Mine got here on monday 😎 Enjoy and share doubts or whatever. I´ll be restarting Less Then 60 Miles again soon, as every time I wanted to get into it, I was offered to play something else! Great series BTW, and inspired by Colonel John Boyed Patterns of Conflict study. Red 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Red2112 said: That´s great, Iam very happy that you were able to get a copy! Mine got here on monday 😎 Enjoy and share doubts or whatever. I´ll be restarting Less Then 60 Miles again soon, as every time I wanted to get into it, I was offered to play something else! Great series BTW, and inspired by Colonel John Boyed Patterns of Conflict study. Red Thank Red, hope you enjoy it too. I've been trying to learn it using its vassal module, but had to watch unboxing videos, like yours, over and over in order to draw my own tables, which are not available for download. In the meantime, I also made a little treat for it while waiting for either a reprint of LT60M or TDoW: Edited January 23, 2021 by stormrider_sp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red2112 Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks @stormrider_sp, Rules set is well written as you may have already found out, so I don´t think you will have a hard time with that. Here´s some help if you havent already seen them: You can check out Chewie Matt´s play through.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30CXic0TEQ8&t=1214s Or Kevin Shrap´s (Big Board Gaming) play/thoughts series... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmD9-euHe4&list=PLJIakz3VEEY6-VpNrGziPv5xO8BoscKt9 Iam sure Fabrizio has added some new rules and tweaks to the core C3 rule set with Dogs of War, but at least you can get an Idea of how the core rules work. BTW, game is sold out already in US and Canada! For those interested, you can download the designers notes on Dogs of War in the link below (scroll down a bit) https://trlgames.com/ Red 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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