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Red2112

Wargames

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

I've tried so hard to enjoy games from the Shrapnel catalog (to include SPMBT). 

 

They all seem to have a nice focus, a few with modern combat, but in the end they're all clunky, ugly, play very pooly and generally not fun or enjoyable.

 

 

They are built around old engines, especially BCT Commander (1998), ATF (Armored Task Force) would be the "newer" engine following that (2006), and AATF (Air Assault Task Force) being the latest engine (2006) from ProSIM and Mayor Patrick Proctor (dev), I think he is a Mayor, or got promoted IIRC, it´s been awhile.  I haven´t looked at the other ProSIM titles, just the ones from Patrick P.

 

For me, SPMBT is just to old-school in the graphical dept. Not saying these other titles I mentioned are any better, but I can live with it with just NATO symbology.  As for the rest, yes it can be clunky, or difficult at times to navigate and/or overall management of gameplay which in the end I don´t mind. Like everything, once you get used to it, it dosen´t imply a handycap, at least not to me. You will struggle alot more with Addobe AutoCad then this, belive me. I don´t mind older graphics, actually I think better tactical/simulation games were done back then compared to what we can do today.

 

Steel Beast dosen´t have a modern UI either so to say, but again, it´s the result that matters, which in both cases is to deliver a more/less simulation experience in commanding a force/unit.  Oviously SB doses a better job at this, but with a similar atitude (map view, ect. ) these titles do alot better even with there age then most if not all of the currently available PC wargames on the market.

 

In todays games, watching the AI do everything for you except moving the counters and some other admin duties is quite boring to be honest, but yeah, they look real nice! That´s why I still play and enjoy the old boardgame style wargames today, and that´s why Iam revisiting these games again too.

 

As a side note, I think SB has it´s learning curve when new to the UI and system, especially if you were to play only via the tactical map. But that dosent stop anyone from playing/enjoying it. So in the end, one get´s use to it and it becomes second nature. Same with the above games, if one is really interested.  Patience is key my friend 😉

 

Just my opinion...

 

Red

Edited by Red2112
edited new game engine ATF (2006)

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I forgot to mention that SPMBT is a hex-based wargame, it really can´t compare to the other mentioned games as they are real-time none hex based games were waypoints are used.  

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Posted (edited)

Lock n Load: Nations at War Digital, platoon level (while Lock n Load Tactical is squad level) PC wargame.  Less detailed then LnL Tactical but nevertheless fun...

 

On sale 40% off core game:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1226000/Nations_At_War_Digital/

 

 

 

 

I play the board game (White Star Rising), but this is a good way to learn and/or decide if you like it. Or play multiplayer with friends.

 

Red

Edited by Red2112
added video

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Lock and Load: make up your mind. Do you want to be a board game or a computer game. 

 

I played Heroes of Stalingrad on PC.

 

It was really well done but I don't like how it's TRYING to be a board game.

 

I don't want to see the dice or the other stuff that can/does generally go behind the scenes in a computer game. That's the POINT of a computer game: it can do all the calculations and dice rolling behind the scenes so players can focus on other things.

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1 hour ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Lock and Load: make up your mind. Do you want to be a board game or a computer game. 

 

I played Heroes of Stalingrad on PC.

 

It was really well done but I don't like how it's TRYING to be a board game.

 

I don't want to see the dice or the other stuff that can/does generally go behind the scenes in a computer game. That's the POINT of a computer game: it can do all the calculations and dice rolling behind the scenes so players can focus on other things.

I get your point but...

 

Some (myself) like to see the results in this type of *game, even more, some even want to see a side bar with more numbers like defence vs offence values or CRT tables.  Why? Because some think the AI is cheating in the background, and/or has some sort of advantage.  Not that it can do same while seeing the results, though they just feel more comfortable seeing result tables/outcomes so they don´t have to wonder why the combat result ended as it did.  Why did that unit get destroyed?  Well if you have the results (see them), you now know why.

 

*Game: this is and meant to be a port-over of the boardgame.  It´s not like Panzer General, Close Combat or anything similar, these are strategy games or hybrids, not pure wargames on PC.  But Iam sure you already know that, but just for the record of why wargames on PC tend to show results in some form or matter.

 

It´s like the replay cam on SB Pro PE, you see were /what shots landed were and the results, then everybody happy 😉

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Posted (edited)

The "point" for PC wargames is set-up, work space, and time (real world), and you don´t have to worry about your cats, children moving your counters around, or things alike.  Also that you can play against the AI, don´t need to go to a club, find friends to play ect. as well as play MP.  Those are the main reasons Iam afraid.

Edited by Red2112

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Red2112 said:

Some (myself) like to see the results in this type of *game, even more, some even want to see a side bar with more numbers like defence vs offence values or CRT tables

I don't disagree but I think there's a way of doing that without bogging down gameplay.

 

That was my biggest gripe: gameplay was good but all the unnecessary board game "flash" that came with it was a distraction and I don't think it added anything to the game.

 

I felt like I was playing a game about playing a game.

 

Edit: Panzer Corps 1 does a great job in this regard. Showing players the potential combat results then allowing players to see the post-attack results (in detail) but only if the player toggles it. It's not in the players face.

Edited by Apocalypse 31

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Heros of Stalingrad (Matrix version) was/is more bothering then this newer LnL version in my opinion. Those adimn counters did get in the way of gameplay.  I could understand it for those who did know how to play in the first place, but it was quite distracting to new players.  Those adimn counters are used in the boardgame as reminders (Ops Complete, Overwatch ect.), so for players that knew and played the boardgame I guess it was normal to see.  Was it really needed?  Well the game should remind you of your situation maybe, but they could have done it in a different way (not with the actual admin chits).  But again, they pretend to be port-overs of the real game, so I can´t blame that.

 

The newer version dose a better job at this (smaller adimn chits), but then the dices are way to big! 😁  They are still en EA, so they might tweek some things to adapt to Steam users, which are not your avarage wargamers in any way.

 

Personally, it dosen´t bother me that much. In away I sort of like it this way.  Because I don´t like to just be moving virtual counters around, as if I was playing checkers. It´s boring when everything is being done for you, even the reading of resaults/tables ect.  Move a counter, bang, combat result, move another counter, bang, combat result, and so on.  Boring as hell LOL! I guess Iam more a chess guy.

 

My mind thinks to fast in a system like that, which to me dosen´t make it much fun.  You know recon here, think, move, observe, act, then rinse and repeat as needed.

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Sea Power will also be published by Microprose

 

 

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Sea Power caught my interest at first, but looking at that trailer, i'ts going to be another arcade shooter. Looks just like everything else, unfortunately (just first impressions)

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2 hours ago, Ingolf said:

Sea Power caught my interest at first, but looking at that trailer, i'ts going to be another arcade shooter. Looks just like everything else, unfortunately (just first impressions)

I agree. When I think of it, it reminds me of Cold Waters, from the same brand.

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1 hour ago, stormrider_sp said:

Cold Waters, from the same brand.

Nope, Its from some of the ex-devs that worked in the Cold Waters project.  It´s there own company, and own project...

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Well it's complicated , Sea Power is developed by some ex devs from Killerfish but under Killerfish brand name and published by Microprose.

 

There is actually 4 games that will be publised by MP : TFA, SP and 2 FPS (one in modern era - Astan and one during the WW2) + B-17 but only in VR that is the main Microprose project at the time.

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4 hours ago, Galileo said:

Well it's complicated , Sea Power is developed by some ex devs from Killerfish but under Killerfish brand name and published by Microprose.

 

There is actually 4 games that will be publised by MP : TFA, SP and 2 FPS (one in modern era - Astan and one during the WW2) + B-17 but only in VR that is the main Microprose project at the time.

I think the devs of Sea Power are Triassic Games (ex Killerfish members) and really hope B-17 will be not VR exclusive. Have nothing of money for a VR set. Do you have official confirmation about that? Thanks!

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6 hours ago, Vikingo said:

I think the devs of Sea Power are Triassic Games (ex Killerfish members) and really hope B-17 will be not VR exclusive. Have nothing of money for a VR set. Do you have official confirmation about that? Thanks!

For B-17 here an article .

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-05-06-the-resurrection-of-microprose-and-return-of-wild-bill-stealey

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I've been messing with combat mission shock force 2 and kinda enjoy it! In the old days I played combat mission, this is a nice upgrade.

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Posted (edited)

Across the Rhine (GOG), on sale €2,79...

https://www.gog.com/game/across_the_rhine

 

A classic 😉

 

In German, but it´s the most recent video I could find.  To slow the game speed, check out the game forum on GOG.

 

 

Red

Edited by Red2112

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Me and my student buddy played the h*** out of this back in the days! 😀

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