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What does that even mean?

3 hours ago, Scrapper_511 said:

The interviewee (Joel Billings?) said that it’s the scale where range still matters but unit-facing does not.

Except that with heavy units, it always does.

Tactical results are highly granular. With the approach "facing doesn't matter" and a 10m grid map you couldn't get adequate results when simulating the battle of Termopylae. You couldn't simulate the glider attack on Eben Emael, or the allied thrust into Iraq 2003. You could simulate nothing where history shows a highly slanted outcome.

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5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Except that with heavy units, it always does.

Tactical results are highly granular. With the approach "facing doesn't matter" and a 10m grid map you couldn't get adequate results when simulating the battle of Termopylae. You couldn't simulate the glider attack on Eben Emael, or the allied thrust into Iraq 2003. You could simulate nothing where history shows a highly slanted outcome.

Exactly....and that's what happens when developers have selective application of realism and abstraction in their games. 

 

And one of the many reasons why Southern Storm won't ever see my hard drive, and Red Storm will never see it again.

 

 

Let's not even get into the ridiculous under-performance of NATO equipment versus Warsaw equipment. Thermals and advanced optics? Nope, M1's still get a 40% hit rate.

 

I don't understand grognards and their obsession with Flashpoint Campaigns. I do not think it is a good game at all.

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The idea of unequal turns based on degradation of Mission Command systems was a novel one in Red Storm. The issues were that you couldn't issue broad orders to your HQ's direct subordinates (like you would in real life) with this mode active. Having to move each and every Platoon when you are a Division Commander is tedious to say the least. Add in ridiculously long turn resolutions (I don't need to see two scout platoons shooting at each other for 5 minutes straight and accomplishing nothing in terms of casualties) and bizarre combat results (a platoon of Avengers in a prepared defensive position being destroyed by a flight of Mi-24s with zero helos hit) made it a complete disappointment. 

 

I know some people like it. I don't understand why. 

 

I honestly think that Halls of Montezuma from 1987 has done one of the best jobs of simulating you being at a higher HQ level. You give orders to your subordinate unit HQs, and they fight it from there. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halls_of_Montezuma:_A_Battle_History_of_the_U.S._Marine_Corps

Edited by Mirzayev
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Usually Grand Tactical is at a Divisional level, which in turn also dictates hexes (terrain) and movement being at a larger scale as well as turns. So a turn can represent a full day, and a hex 10 miles for example.

 

MMP has a great series called GTS (Grand Tactical Series)...

 

MMP GTS:

https://www.multimanpublishing.com/Products/tabid/58/CategoryID/16/Default.aspx

 

 

Red

Edited by Red2112
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On 11/27/2020 at 8:37 AM, stormrider_sp said:

Thank you,! I've been trying this a lot lately. Very interesting!

Do you know of any similar game, board or computer, cold war, that plays on battalion level?

I have this in my to buy list, but it´s naval warfare...

 

 

Another on my list is 1985 Deadly Northern Lights (I have Less Then Sixty Miles from the same pub/dev.)...

 

Thin Red Line Games:

https://trlgames.com/1985-deadly-northern-lights/

 

 

Red

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Wargaming companies know that if they call it operational, they lose a specific audience.  If they call it "grand" tactical, they can bring in people that think they want a tactical game, and even people more inclined to an operational-level game.

 

And as was stated in the interview, the companies think that by adding grand to the category, they can get away from armor facing, which adds a level of complication to programming.

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Yeah, fine - so it's marketing nonsense. Well, these are companies too, if that's what it takes to survive, that's what they'll do. Not sure however if semi-deceptive labeling strategies are the path to long-term success.

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Flashpoint Campaigns developer (and long-time SBPro player) here.

 

The game series uses a 500m hex scale, with unit counters typically representing platoons. The game does take into account facing (and front / flank / hull / turret / top armor). However, the player, as the commander issuing orders from his Brigade/Division HQ, does not control the unit (vehicle) facing.

 

The game supports scenarios from 4 up to 24hrs, which allow for larger maneuvers where forward elements probe and fight for several hours before the main body arrives to complete the mission

 

The game series goes back all the way to Simulations Canada's 'Main Battle Tank: Central Germany' (1989, Amiga/Apple II), which also described itself as 'modern grand tactical armoured combat'.

 

William

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10 hours ago, _William said:

The game does take into account facing (and front / flank / hull / turret / top armor). However, the player, as the commander issuing orders from his Brigade/Division HQ, does not control the unit (vehicle) facing.

William

Thanks for clarifying, William. I didn't mean to imply that armor facing was not taken into account. Rather, I meant Rob Crandall was speaking in terms of game scale and the scope of player control.

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3 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Game looks good- I like the setting (with Aliens turned off)

 

But, wow...that is a LOT to grasp. 

Yeap, but at least one can´t say he´s not getting his moneys worth with this game.  4X games (hybrid in this case) tend to be deep so expect a big learning curve.  Iam thinking about this one, will see, still have quite some time before the Matrix sale is over which usually ends the 2nd of January.

Edited by Red2112
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Not quite a wargame but nevertheless it has me intrigued. With Phantom Brigade you can anticipate your enemies moves in a 5 second timeline and plan your strategy ahead.  Quite unique game IMHO...

 

Home site:

https://braceyourselfgames.com/press/phantom-brigade/

 

On EA and only availlable at Epic store for now, will also be on Steam later on next year.

 

 

 

 

Red

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