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Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018

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On 6/16/2018 at 4:57 AM, Damian90 said:

It seems from Ukrainian sources, that the fault was at the factory level. But perhaps indeed we see here a difference in maintnance training, while NATO crews are trained to deal with most problems their tanks have, Soviet and former Soviet countries tank crews need help from factory personel, I heard Ukrainian took such personel with them, and this personel not crew, tried to fix the problem.

Did they say what was the actual fault? LOS issue? Or within the FCS, Azimuth subsystems ? GTD component?

Edited by Assassin 7

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9 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

Did they say what was the actual fault? LOS issue? Or within the FCS, Azimuth subsystems ? GTD component?

 

AFAIK some problem with FCS, it was fucked up by Malyshev factory when they refurbished vehicles, not only that, entire electrics were old, so there were cases of a lot of sparks inside. :P

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36 minutes ago, Damian90 said:

 

AFAIK some problem with FCS, it was fucked up by Malyshev factory when they refurbished vehicles, not only that, entire electrics were old, so there were cases of a lot of sparks inside. :P

loose harnesses will cause these kinda of faults too. So they just rushed the tank out of the factory to come and shoot at a tournament. WOW 

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Actually as it appears, tanks of UA team were not completely  refurbished at all because nobody bothered  to pay factory for this. So  manufacturer  just added thermal sights, GPS receivers, some  external stuff like ladders and applied new paint-job, but nothing  more(while vehicles  were stored for decade under open sky without proper preservation and maintenance).

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8 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

So they just rushed the tank out of the factory to come and shoot at a tournament. WOW 

In glorious tradition.

Then again, they have bigger worries than a shooting competition in Germany. Like, a shooting war at home.

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15 hours ago, Jartsev said:

Actually as it appears, tanks of UA team were not completely  refurbished at all because nobody bothered  to pay factory for this. So  manufacturer  just added thermal sights, GPS receivers, some  external stuff like ladders and applied new paint-job, but nothing  more(while vehicles  were stored for decade under open sky without proper preservation and maintenance).

Did they even do any AAC checks before they were sent. Any FCS test at all?

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28 minutes ago, Assassin 7 said:

Did they even do any AAC checks before they were sent. Any FCS test at all?

Those were presumably to be done by manufacturer`s representatives(crews were from T-64-equipped unit and had  rather limited training and practical expeirience with T-84). But as  it appeared, vehicles were not ready. Plus Ukraine have just 6 T-84s MBTs, so  vehicles  not utilized as  competition tracks were used as donors  of spare parts. 

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21 minutes ago, Jartsev said:

Those were presumably to be done by manufacturer`s representatives(crews were from T-64-equipped unit and had  rather limited training and practical expeirience with T-84). But as  it appeared, vehicles were not ready. Plus Ukraine have just 6 T-84s MBTs, so  vehicles  not utilized as  competition tracks were used as donors  of spare parts. 

Ok thanks. Got a question, I understand that they would not shoot the tank in this condition but say if they were in combat and this happened would the T-84 FCS have a Firing inhibit which would not allow thier electrical triggers to work due to the GTD readings? And if so is there a way to bypass it? 

 

If the Abrams had gun chatter, the FCS would have a firing inhibit not allowing the electrical triggers to operate but the gunner could bypass the FCS inhibit by using the Blasting Device (Master Blaster) going straight to the firing contacts E1 and E2 on the side of the Breech. The SEP Arming Handle would have to be armed.

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24 minutes ago, Assassin 7 said:

Ok thanks. Got a question, I understand that they would not shoot the tank in this condition but say if they were in combat and this happened would the T-84 FCS have a Firing inhibit which would not allow thier electrical triggers to work due to the GTD readings? And if so is there a way to bypass it? 

 

If the Abrams had gun chatter, the FCS would have a firing inhibit not allowing the electrical triggers to operate but the gunner could bypass the FCS inhibit by using the Blasting Device (Master Blaster) going straight to the firing contacts E1 and E2 on the side of the Breech. The SEP Arming Handle would have to be armed.

Wouldn't switching off Stab and FCS solve that? SO you can then shoot with the GAS?...I mean, what are you going to hit with this wobbly gun?

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18 minutes ago, Grenny said:

Wouldn't switching off Stab and FCS solve that? SO you can then shoot with the GAS?...I mean, what are you going to hit with this wobbly gun?

Emergency mode will not allow you to bypass the inhibits depending on the fault. A GTD fault the inhibits will still be active. Normal mode stab fault then it would bypass the inhibits. I’m just curious if there is a way to bypass the electrical triggers on the T-84

Edited by Assassin 7

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2 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

Emergency mode will not allow you to bypass the inhibits depending on the fault. A GTD fault the inhibits will still be active. Normal mode stab fault then it would bypass the inhibits. I’m just curious if there is a way to bypass the electrical triggers on the T-84

I am not certain but I think they might not be able to do so. Compared to M1A2SEP, T-84 is very... primitive, FCS wise.

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45 minutes ago, Damian90 said:

I am not certain but I think they might not be able to do so. Compared to M1A2SEP, T-84 is very... primitive, FCS wise.

Ok thanks 

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re: T84

 

https://warisboring.com/ukraines-t-84-tanks-have-problems/

Quote

 

These T-84s encountered lot of problems at Grafenwoehr.

 

The T-84 uses an autoloader instead of a manual — human — loader, but on three of the four tanks, the shells did not load properly, according to Capt. Roman Bagaev, a company commander in the 14th Mechanized Brigade speaking to the Ukrainian military website Novynarnia. This is due to faulty charging mechanisms that send power to the autoloader.

 

Another issue — shakiness in the 125-millimeter cannon due to faulty fire-control systems. Beyond one kilometer, the tanks cannot accurately hit their targets. As a result, the group of T-84s only managed to fire 16 shells of the 40 shells the tanks brought with them.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

Ok thanks. Got a question, I understand that they would not shoot the tank in this condition but say if they were in combat and this happened would the T-84 FCS have a Firing inhibit which would not allow thier electrical triggers to work due to the GTD readings? And if so is there a way to bypass it? 

 

If the Abrams had gun chatter, the FCS would have a firing inhibit not allowing the electrical triggers to operate but the gunner could bypass the FCS inhibit by using the Blasting Device (Master Blaster) going straight to the firing contacts E1 and E2 on the side of the Breech. The SEP Arming Handle would have to be armed.

Well,  shaky gun or shaky turret in case of T-series tanks is  likely caused by wrong adjustment of stabilizer "hardness" setting;  sure it prevents tank  from firing, but can be resolved  by simple adjustment of some potentiometers in K1 box  if cause is not a general  failure  of said box... Problem is that any tweaking or fixing of stabilizer is prohibited at crew or platoon level as a   measure of protection against idiots(but procedures are described in operation manuals)... So  only option  for the crew is to  switch to emergency modes of operation- semiautomatic(powered unstabilized AZ and manual EL,)  manual EL and AZ, or in case of T-80U/UD, T-90 and T-84- to try  enable mode "Double PA"; in this  mode turret traverse is powered unstabilized, but main gun is stabilized by TC`s TKN-4/PK-5(depending of tank  model).

 

Issues with AL were very likely caused by air bubbles in hydraulics system... Relatively easy to fix, but not on the range or in the middle of firefight.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jartsev said:

Well,  shaky gun or shaky turret in case of T-series tanks is  likely caused by wrong adjustment of stabilizer "hardness" setting;  sure it prevents tank  from firing, but can be resolved  by simple adjustment of some potentiometers in K1 box  if cause is not a general  failure  of said box... Problem is that any tweaking or fixing of stabilizer is prohibited at crew or platoon level as a   measure of protection against idiots(but procedures are described in operation manuals)... So  only option  for the crew is to  switch to emergency modes of operation- semiautomatic(powered unstabilized AZ and manual EL,)  manual EL and AZ, or in case of T-80U/UD, T-90 and T-84- to try  enable mode "Double PA"; in this  mode turret traverse is powered unstabilized, but main gun is stabilized by TC`s TKN-4/PK-5(depending of tank  model).

 

Issues with AL were very likely caused by air bubbles in hydraulics system... Relatively easy to fix, but not on the range or in the middle of firefight.

 

 

 

 

Thanks greatly appreciate the details

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6 hours ago, Jartsev said:

Issues with AL were very likely caused by air bubbles in hydraulics system... Relatively easy to fix, but not on the range or in the middle of firefight.

One of the reasons why fully electric system is better than hydraulic one.

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