Gunner controllers

[japetus]

Is there any recent development on the field of 3rd party usb controller manufacturing -at an affordable price, may I add-.

Is the market still limited to the expensive military specifications usb controller replicas by a couple of companies or the diy solution of buying an original used army surplus controller and trying to modify it?

What are the current options of a controller that could be used for SB at the sim market? Is there perhaps a .stl of a 3d sketch available to print your own with a 3d printer?

[Ssnake]

I'm not closely following the market, but you summed up the situation as I know it just nicely.

[wildbillkelsoe]

I think a bit of 3D printing, some hall effect sensors, an arduino, a few buttons and switches and some coding experience is what is needed. In flight sims the market now has alot of DIY and offshelf products that rival by a mile existing thrustmaster products. I hear you that it beats using a flight stick to control a tank turret but so far nothing appeared and existing stuff is under military control. 

 

Like it could be a PS4 controller mounted on a swiveling neck.

[Rotareneg]

A joystick, ITAR controlled? I bet it's almost as dangerous as a t-shirt:

 

[wildbillkelsoe]

41 minutes ago, Rotareneg said:

A joystick, ITAR controlled? I bet it's almost as dangerous as a t-shirt:

 

exactly my sentiment. I mean if that is the case then also thrustmaster, logitech, etc.. should be under the same rule. Except, they develop wonky looking products that appear as props in primetime or unofficially, but officially endorsed by armed forces entertainment and practices act (bullshit et al 1886). With all that said, if a 3D schematic could be printed that would eliminate the need for surplus purchase.

 

It could be because IFV/AFV/MBTs are more liable to fall into enemy hands than aircrafts.

 

Its a good thing he or she did not give me a number to call for violating that hocus TFR.

Edited July 24, 2018 by wildbillkelsoe

[Gibsonm]

The Gunner's control handle in the ASLAV is ITAR controlled.

 

Pretty sure the Coammander's overide both in the M1 AIM SA and the old Leo AS1 are ITAR controlled.

 

If its made by a foreign company and holds their IP, then its likely under ITAR.

[wildbillkelsoe]

Just now, Gibsonm said:

The Gunner's control handle in the ASLAV is ITAR controlled.

 

Pretty sure the Coammander's overide both in the M1 AIM SA and the old Leo AS1 are ITAR controlled.

 

If its made by a foreign company and holds their IP, then its likely under ITAR.

 

I have no idea about half of what you wrote. AIM? IP? Instruction Practice?

[MAJ_Fubar]

2 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

 

I have no idea about half of what you wrote. AIM? IP? Instruction Practice?

IP = Intellectual Property; AIM SA =  Abrams Integrated Management  Situational Awareness

[Nike-Ajax]

You could possibly try to ask @DK-DDAM nicely if he knows anything?

Edited July 24, 2018 by Nike-Ajax

[Jartsev]

Gunner`s control handles replicas  are "specialised equipment for military training" per Wassenaar agreements. This basically means no export or import  without end-user certificate and proper licenses in North America and  EU.

[hawes]

In the UK, our emulated control handles require an export licence under entry ML14 of Schedule 2 of the UK Strategic Export Control Lists. (Page 24 of 28, UK Military List)

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/685044/controllist20180305.pdf

[japetus]

A simple (I emphasize on the word simple) gunner controller could be easily made using the electronics of a cheap usb steering wheel. All that is needed is there, I was even able to play SB using a steering wheel -and the acceleration for up/down movement- back at the time.

If only we had a proper 3d printed plastic case -no need to be an exact 1:1 replica if royalties are involved- to embed the cables in it.....

[wildbillkelsoe]

7 minutes ago, japetus said:

A simple (I emphasize on the word simple) gunner controller could be easily made using the electronics of a cheap usb steering wheel. All that is needed is there, I was even able to play SB using a steering wheel -and the acceleration for up/down movement- back at the time.

If only we had a proper 3d printed plastic case -no need to be an exact 1:1 replica if royalties are involved- to embed the cables in it.....

 

Add to that a manual fire control mode couple of wheels with pulses and you can kiss the military hardware need goodbye (I hope). Its really easy with an arduino and a magnetoresistor. 

[wildbillkelsoe]

so without derailing thread, is there a key to unlock the tank? like a car key? or do you require perhaps a specifically machined crowbar to the lock specification so you jam it somewhere and it magically unlocks the tank?

[TSe419E]

You mean to get in?  On the M-60s there is a place on the loader's hatch to put a pad lock.  I suspesct the M-1s are similar.  If you lose the lock/key you could latch the hatch down, from the inside, by putting your arm through the periscope flap/hatch.  Close the flap and your tank is just as secure as it is with a pad lock, just not as easy to get open.

[wildbillkelsoe]

4 hours ago, TSe419E said:

You mean to get in?  On the M-60s there is a place on the loader's hatch to put a pad lock.  I suspesct the M-1s are similar.  If you lose the lock/key you could latch the hatch down, from the inside, by putting your arm through the periscope flap/hatch.  Close the flap and your tank is just as secure as it is with a pad lock, just not as easy to get open.

I dont know.. I never saw a real tank even upclose. So that padlock youre referring to is some sort of a chain between the hatch and the hatch negative. so you secure the hatch like subs and then put on a chain and a lock like a bike?

[Mirzayev]

1 hour ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

I dont know.. I never saw a real tank even upclose. So that padlock youre referring to is some sort of a chain between the hatch and the hatch negative. so you secure the hatch like subs and then put on a chain and a lock like a bike?

Nope. You just put a padlock (see the image below) into two protruding pieces of metal with a hole in them attached to both the hatch and the hull. It is similar to putting a lock onto a gym locker. To open you just unlock (or cut) the padlock. 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Mirzayev

[Hedgehog]

Well from my observations as a Civvy.

 

Generally storing tanks is conducted thus:

 

They are kept in a secure compound, with depending on budget constraints,

chain liked fences,

razor wire protected chain link fences,

CCTV,

open planned sites (No cover to sneak behind)

patrolling armed guards,

Patrolling armed guards with dogs.

 

The weapons depending on their portability are removed or disassembled and stored in an Armoury.

Weapons like 30mm cannons can be taken out with "relative" ease,

Machine guns and personal weapons are also stored in the Armoury

120mm, 155mm etc, have firing mechanisms removed and stored.

 

As such there is minimal physical security measures (other than XYZ amount of heavy composite armour & 120mm tank cannons) to prevent unauthorised access on the vehicle itself.

Since when the vehicle is outside the compound it is assumed the crew(s) will protect the vehicle(s).

I.E. they sleep in or around the vehicle and at least one of them is awake and on guard at any one time (and depending on circumstances, armed)

 

The main ignition switch on an AFV is called the master battery switch, and is generally just a switch with knock protection, as there is enough protection already and the driver will probably lose the key, at some point.

 

Of course all this is all dependent on the armed forces using said vehicles and their particular security measures.

But, as you can no doubt understand, they tend to e a bit touchy about this subject.

[Major duck]

23 minutes ago, Hedgehog said:

Well from my observations as a Civvy.

 

Generally storing tanks is conducted thus:

 

They are kept in a secure compound, with depending on budget constraints,

chain liked fences,

razor wire protected chain link fences,

CCTV,

open planned sites (No cover to sneak behind)

patrolling armed guards,

Patrolling armed guards with dogs.

 

120mm, 155mm etc, have firing mechanisms removed and stored.

 

 

Not when i was in there all arty guns where stored as is when in use by a unit aka when in garrison, they only split them apart to conserve them when a unit was demobbed but all parts where stored in the same place

 

MD

Edited July 26, 2018 by Major duck

[Nike-Ajax]

Ask if you can buy one of these:

 

 

[wildbillkelsoe]

aha so you want us to buy the container or the control handles? I’ll just await a 3D printable handle and see where I go from there.

[wildbillkelsoe]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:48 AM, Mirzayev said:

Nope. You just put a padlock (see the image below) into two protruding pieces of metal with a hole in them attached to both the hatch and the hull. It is similar to putting a lock onto a gym locker. To open you just unlock (or cut) the padlock. 

 

 

so it is like a top loaded washing machine held by a bike lock. Sort of makes me think what if someone decides to prank the occupants so they could like dump a bucket of doo doo and then seal it up so when the tank captain (like plane captain) walks to ready up he would be surprised. Nah it is not that easy. It cant be. 

[Rotareneg]

Uh, what do you think it uses, some kind of retinal scanner? This photo shows the loaders hatch and the edge of the commanders hatch, both locked with padlocks.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Rotareneg

[japetus]

Back at the '80s, there used to be an arcade game/cabin called Star Wars, which featured a unique control, known as the Star Wars yoke, which resembles pretty much a gunners control. Well, sort of, a few keys are missing..

 

 

Unfortunately, the particular controller has not become popular with other games, so original items like this are quite rare (and expensive) and third party copies not available.

Several individuals have tried since then to replicate such a controller, many with quite a success, in order to make a usb controller to be used in custom gaming computers. There's even a 3d sketch for it available, which with some edit for more buttons, palm switch etc., could be used to serve the needs of the gunner position in SB..

Check out the sketches here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=133656.0

[Ssnake]

Fun fact, the company that made these controllers also made the handles for the Bradley if I remember this correctly, and used the same moulds for the hand grips.