drcancerman Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) I've noticed that the roads don't seem to be following the terrain that well, or they seem a tad bit off. Are there any plans on improving it? You know, to match the awesome terrain engine. It's ok with me, but I'm curious if there are any plans for it. Edited July 25, 2019 by drcancerman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I wonder how the APS systems would handle a barrage by the TOS-1A. I will find out in approximately 72 hours. LoL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yskonyn Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 As said before, the 4.1 tag is lame. It's AT LEAST 4.5 or perhaps even 5.0 with all the new toys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquito Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 In 4.1 We will be able to video record from an after action mission file created together with mission?. e.g. like in iL-2 and DCS do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Yskonyn said: As said before, the 4.1 tag is lame. It's AT LEAST 4.5 or perhaps even 5.0 with all the new toys. Esim’s and North Carolina’s motto: „To be, rather then to seem“ (to be) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Chiquito said: In 4.1 We will be able to video record from an after action mission file created together with mission?. e.g. like in iL-2 and DCS do Don't know how other games do it...SB AAR files record events and 4 second snap shots. otherwise they would be much to big 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 One will be really well protected against RPG/ATGM in that one: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquito Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grenny said: Don't know how other games do it...SB AAR files record events and 4 second snap shots. otherwise they would be much to big Well 4 seconds is not worth it to make a video of the after actions. So seem we will keep the 4 second snap shots. Doing live is missing the best actions for a video. About the size is not that crazy big when the whole actions full frame are recorded talking about other games already have it. Edited July 25, 2019 by Chiquito 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 25, 2019 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2019 3 hours ago, drcancerman said: I've noticed that the roads don't seem to be following the terrain that well, or they seem a tad bit off. Are there any plans on improving it? You know, to match the awesome terrain engine. It's ok with me, but I'm curious if there are any plans for it. The roads are now being projected on the terrain rather than floating above it (as they did from version 2.251 until 4.023). To that extent they follow the terrain closer than ever, maybe "too much" insofar as we haven't yet found a way to smoothen paved roads from underlying terrain jitter (in the case of LIDAR based maps; most maps of course are still the converted old style, so the "pot hole syndrome" doesn't manifest). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chiquito said: ... About the size is not that crazy big when the whole actions full frame are recorded talking about other games already have it. I suspect other games don't record the same AAR information as SB Pro PE does and therefore the video files wouldn't be as large. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithcorp Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Road construction is poor in whatever country that is. 😀 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 25, 2019 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Yskonyn said: As said before, the 4.1 tag is lame. It's AT LEAST 4.5 or perhaps even 5.0 with all the new toys. As an engineer, I take such criticism as a compliment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 DCS track file are basically recordings of control inputs by the player and AI. Playing back the track feeds the recorded inputs back into the sim to (hopefully, it's not 100% reliable,) reproduce the original events. They don't work anything like AARs in SB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquito Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rotareneg said: DCS track file are basically recordings of control inputs by the player and AI. Playing back the track feeds the recorded inputs back into the sim to (hopefully, it's not 100% reliable,) reproduce the original events. They don't work anything like AARs in SB. I don’t want keep discussion on this. About your comparison above is not 100%, but it is at least 80%. That after action help a lot to the simulation quality and correct yourself a lot as well the media promotion with videos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcancerman Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, Ssnake said: As an engineer, I take such criticism as a compliment. 4.5 or 4.8, on the least! And in regards to the roads, that's interesting. And what's the explanation for the sharp/polygonal bends we see on some screenshots and videos from the 4.1? I find those things fascinating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 25, 2019 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2019 LIDAR scans only provide the elevation data. The road network is based on vector data. Depending on how detailed the road network has been vectorized there may be sharper or softer angles visible in curves. We have added a toggle in the Map Editor to apply road splining to soften such edges. But of course you are then "inventing data" (=making shit up) that may look more plausible but which is no longer conforming to the original. Another problem can be that LIDAR scans are the "direct measurement" of the terrain from the point of observation. As such, LIDAR scans aren't based on an underlying Earth model which would then be the basis for a map projection. But all the vector data are. So there will be divergences between the LIDAR profile of, say, railroad embankments and the actual rail lines where the source of error lies in the different map projection formulas. These errors may have already been there in the past, but due to the low resolution you didn't notice such divergences. Now they become more apparent. So... We included these new LIDAR based maps to give you an impression of the quality boost that high-res source data can offer over converted DTED-3 (or worse) height maps of the past, but we left these new maps unedited. You can of course enable the road splining and save the result as a new delta map. Likewise you can try and apply road smoothing in selected places. I'm sure, it will look prettier, possibly also more plausible in places. But as a collective, you PE players have infinitely more manpower than our small team ... so we provide you with some data and the tools to brush them up. But that's the limit of what we can actually deliver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Grenny said: One will be really well protected against RPG/ATGM in that one: Sweet. Can this system be fitted to BMP-1/2. I suspect the Armour would be to light Edited July 25, 2019 by Marko 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcancerman Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Ssnake said: LIDAR scans only provide the elevation data. The road network is based on vector data. Depending on how detailed the road network has been vectorized there may be sharper or softer angles visible in curves. We have added a toggle in the Map Editor to apply road splining to soften such edges. But of course you are then "inventing data" (=making shit up) that may look more plausible but which is no longer conforming to the original. Another problem can be that LIDAR scans are the "direct measurement" of the terrain from the point of observation. As such, LIDAR scans aren't based on an underlying Earth model which would then be the basis for a map projection. But all the vector data are. So there will be divergences between the LIDAR profile of, say, railroad embankments and the actual rail lines where the source of error lies in the different map projection formulas. These errors may have already been there in the past, but due to the low resolution you didn't notice such divergences. Now they become more apparent. So... We included these new LIDAR based maps to give you an impression of the quality boost that high-res source data can offer over converted DTED-3 (or worse) height maps of the past, but we left these new maps unedited. You can of course enable the road splining and save the result as a new delta map. Likewise you can try and apply road smoothing in selected places. I'm sure, it will look prettier, possibly also more plausible in places. But as a collective, you PE players have infinitely more manpower than our small team ... so we provide you with some data and the tools to brush them up. But that's the limit of what we can actually deliver. Fascinating. And how one, such as us, players would go to obtain a LIDAR of a place, is it too expensive? In regards to roads, would OpenStreet Map be out of the question? I assume, an integration like that would help you guys and us, the players, with a more accurate map, including... prettier curves! haha On that note, that feature of softening road edges is most welcome! Giving us the choice to use or not use such a feature is always the best choice! Thanks for the explanation!! Edited July 25, 2019 by drcancerman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingo Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Hope so! Those ingenious gadgets can really help the BMP-1 & 2 + Can't wait to see those ERA bricks disappears once again under a HEAT rain Nothing against the T-72 (play a lot inside it and outside it living the "fly me to the moon" turret dream), just really like the "arkanoid" effect 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 26, 2019 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, drcancerman said: And how one, such as us, players would go to obtain a LIDAR of a place, is it too expensive? I really don't know, but internet search engines might. I suspect that for some countries (most of Scandinavia, for example) the data are free (wherever they would be offered), in other countries they might cost a lot or aren't avialable at all. But no matter what the situation is _right now_, I think there is a trend towards lower and lower costs (eventually approaching zero), and increasing availability, so it's only a matter of time before you will find sources. Quote In regards to roads, would OpenStreet Map be out of the question? I don't know what that's supposed to change. OSM data are vector data like any other, so they share the same characteristics, quality of vectorization (OSM tends to be "very good" in populated areas, and "no better or worse" in rural territory with reliance on the same more or less shitty/outdated public data) Projection method/accuracy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, drcancerman said: And how one, such as us, players would go to obtain a LIDAR of a place, is it too expensive? In regards to roads, would OpenStreet Map be out of the question? In the US the USGS and state GIS departments would be a good place to look for free data. Edited July 26, 2019 by Rotareneg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yskonyn Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 At any rate, I hope the community will be open minded with sharing edited maps. The ‘unlimited manhours’ argument only stands if we consolidate the efforts and post everything in the/a repository. This community has been great with this so far, however. Unlike, for example, DCS, where a player has to know people to get the multitude of awesome skins that have been made for various aircraft. Good Tankin’ times ahead! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 26, 2019 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Yskonyn said: The ‘unlimited manhours’ argument only stands if we consolidate the efforts and post everything in the/a repository. ...and this is where our map server, and the Map Tools, will come in handy. The Map Tools will also allow you to upload selected maps to the public map server. That way you will be able to share your work results. We may need to find a way to somehow regulate this and we cannot guarantee that our server will work as a substitute to your own backup. But in principle this is how it can be done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, drcancerman said: Fascinating. And how one, such as us, players would go to obtain a LIDAR of a place, is it too expensive? In regards to roads, would OpenStreet Map be out of the question? I assume, an integration like that would help you guys and us, the players, with a more accurate map, including... prettier curves! haha On that note, that feature of softening road edges is most welcome! Giving us the choice to use or not use such a feature is always the best choice! Thanks for the explanation!! LIDAR data is more and more available. You can already find data available for the US, for free. Also, with a drone and camera, one can also DIY "LIDAR" scans of their own regions with open source apps. If you think about it, it has imense potential. Edited July 26, 2019 by stormrider_sp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ssnake said: ...and this is where our map server, and the Map Tools, will come in handy. The Map Tools will also allow you to upload selected maps to the public map server. That way you will be able to share your work results. We may need to find a way to somehow regulate this and we cannot guarantee that our server will work as a substitute to your own backup. But in principle this is how it can be done. Yes. It has great potential. During the last few years, I felt a bit of difficulty in find the "latests" maps, because people were just not sharing them in the official downloads sections of steelbeasts.com, but instead, keeping them in their own forums, which, most of them time, offered at least language barriers and only made the data more difficult to find. One really had to know where to look for. Edited July 26, 2019 by stormrider_sp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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