Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kingtiger

ATGM with ^(top attack) missiles not defeated by afghanit.

Recommended Posts

So not sure this is a bug, but I find it very odd if it werent. (And for you people who doesn't read it all, just to be clear, I am not talking about true top attack missiles like Spike and Javelin that comes down in a high arch, but missiles that flies barely over the target and shoots down shaped charges).

 

BILL and TOW2B that has a missile that flies ~1m above LOS of ATGMs guidance line is not taken care of by Afghanit. In the AAR attached I fire 10 missiles of TOW-2A that gets interdicted 9/10 times if I remember right, and then fire 10 missiles TOW-2B^ that get interdicted only once. The difference in altitude is 1 meter, the afghanit should be able to take care of that. I have tested flying high and low towards the T-14 with TOW-2A and the afghanit intercepts it, so its not that the ^missile flies 1 meter higher that makes a difference, so I think there is a bug in here somewhere.

 

 

TopAttackMissile_Vs_Afghanit.rar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but if  are aiming at the center of mass, and  missile is flying just 1-1.5 above LOS it will be perfectly within  Afganit's intercept envelope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jartsev said:

Sorry, but if  are aiming at the center of mass, and  missile is flying just 1-1.5 above LOS it will be perfectly within  Afganit's intercept envelope.

Yes, but, I read his post to say that in Pro PE, Afganit does not stop those missiles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Maj.Hans said:

Yes, but, I read his post to say that in Pro PE, Afganit does not stop those missiles.

Well, it's all  a matter of probability and very random variables.  Sometime it will stop them, while sometimes it will not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jartsev said:

Well, it's all  a matter of probability and very random variables.  Sometime it will stop them, while sometimes it will not.

Yes and I noticed that when testin (1 missile of the top attack got intercepted, the other 9 didnt). 

But if you look at the AAR and what I am saying... Missiles that flies straight along LOS get intercepted 9 of 10 times, missiles that flies 1 meter above LOS get intercepted 1 of 10 times. You don't find that weird?

 

If it's not a bug I am happy as f*ck, because that means I can use BILL and TOW2B to engage afghanit vehicles with 90-95% hit probability. But I very much doubt I can get to be so happy.

Edited by Kingtiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Kingtiger said:

But if you look at the AAR and what I am saying... Missiles that flies straight along LOS get intercepted 9 of 10 times, missiles that flies 1 meter above LOS get intercepted 1 of 10 times. You don't find that weird?

Ok, point taken. First of all ,   Afganit relies (presumably) on blast-fragmentation  effectors to intercept incoming threats; it is very unlikely if  those effectors can steer and home  on to threat munition... So indeed there will be some reduction of performance,  as range between effector's point of detonation  and  threat  increases. How big this reduction is  an open question.

 

Also probably our current  intercept envelope for single effector can be bit narrow than it should be, but again,  it is debatable ,  if this is correct or wrong.

Edited by Jartsev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering that.  If APS isn't steerable beyond turret movement, I would expect the further you get from the plane of travel for typical ATGM, the less likely you'll get a good intercept.  Is that correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, thewood said:

I was wondering that.  If APS isn't steerable beyond turret movement, I would expect the further you get from the plane of travel for typical ATGM, the less likely you'll get a good intercept.  Is that correct.

Yes, that's right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't hink however that our model is that sophisticated to use a probabilistic intercept function based on the deviation from some ideal line of fire. Rather, if the missile collides with the "intercept cones" (the semi-transparent yellow things that you can see in the AAR), an intercept occurs (with a high probability). If those missiles skim just above those cones 9 out of 10 times, they don't get intercepted.

I will concede that our model is relatively simplistic. But we don't know that much about Afganit either. Maybe our model is accurate, maybe it isn't. We will adapt the underlying model as new information comes to light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

I don't hink however that our model is that sophisticated to use a probabilistic intercept function based on the deviation from some ideal line of fire. Rather, if the missile collides with the "intercept cones" (the semi-transparent yellow things that you can see in the AAR), an intercept occurs (with a high probability). If those missiles skim just above those cones 9 out of 10 times, they don't get intercepted.

I will concede that our model is relatively simplistic. But we don't know that much about Afganit either. Maybe our model is accurate, maybe it isn't. We will adapt the underlying model as new information comes to light.

You guys are clearly not seeing what I am seeing and trying to tell you.

 

 

Look at the video, its divided into two sections, first section I fire with a Non-top attack missile center mass (fairly) and the afghanit engages succesfully 10 out of 12. the other two missile does partly penetration.

The second part of the video I fire a 2B top attack missile but I aim low so the missile itself hits center mass on the targets, and the afghanit does not even react. In the end there is 2 targets alive, rest is knocked out.

 

Not in this video is another testrun I did where I fired of non-top attack missile just above the targets and the afghanit did not engage at all. 

So it looks like the afghanit does a quick check "Will this missile hit me? Yes/No, if Yes engage counter-measure, if No dont bother - And that is how I see it correct.


BUT, it also seems to me that it does that with the top attack missiles "will this missile hit me? NO because it will go over my head with 1m (and not realising that top attack missiles is a thing since.. 20 years back?) and do not engage. EVEN if the missile is actually going center mass towards the vehicle.

 

So something is wrong in my point of view, or I get a free cheat where I can use top attack missiles to aim low and bypass the Afghanit! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Volcano said:

This issue should be fixed now for patch.

No, only part of it is fixed actually. Its in progress though (it's complicated)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...