What is the centauro?

[desertsaint101]

So what is the Centauro? As in what class does it fall under, is it a light tank, a main battle tank, tank destroyer. Or is it like the American Stryker system that is multi platform and what we have in steel beast is just one of the variants 

[Bond_Villian]

I believe you would class it as a tank destroyer/direct fire support vehicle. Fast and lethal, but with a 'glass chin'

[Ssnake]

While it may have the punch for a tank destroyer I would still not see it in that class because it's not its primary role. Officially they are armored reconnaissance, technically I see the Centauro more as a wheeled assault gun tailored for low intensity conflict.

[Maj.Hans]

Pretty much.  I think it was labeled as a "Recon Anti-Tank" at one point.

 

[Bond_Villian]

If the Centauro interests you, check out the DF90 too

[Ssnake]

At least, it creates less noise than a tank which, if you have to perform a fighting reconnaissance, might help in the non-fighting parts so you might have surprise on your side. But then you better be careful which fights to pick.

[Furia]

The Centauro is in my humble oppinion the sexiest and most interesting vehicle in the whole SB. But forgive me,I am very biased. 😍

Has no protection so even a car with an M2 can destroy it but packs a severe punch that when properly administered can destroy or dissable any vehicle in the sim.

Allows you to move real fast and stealthy in the battlefield.

The only thing I miss is that in the early version of the vehicle in the sim it carried a team of two observers dismopunts  but that was removed for some obscure reason. That capability that still exists on the real vehicle made it a real reccon vehicle.

From time to time I repeat my request in the Steel Beast Wishlist to restore the capability of carrying observers, so far unsusscesfuly. Maybe Nils will read it here 

In any case my favourite vehicle. 

[Ssnake]

It was my understanding from talks with the Spanish Army that there are two variants of the Centauro, where one has two seats for dismounts at the expense of a reduced ammo storage capacity, but they're not using it. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. But then again, I'm in constant contact with the Spanish Army, and if they really wanted to have this changed they would just have to drop me a line. They haven't done so in the last eight years, which I take as a sign that they are happy with it, at least in this aspect.

[marques]

The Centauro is no more and no less than a wheeled MBT. It has the firepower of a full tank 105 mm, obviously far less protection, but less weight and better operational movement capability.

In the Spanish army, one of the two operators with Italy if I´m not mistaken, is used in light cavalry units in exactly the same role than the Leo 2E is used in heavy cavalry units. Actually initially it was bought just for the Cav Regiment intended to be fast deployable, as the Centauro could be air deployed in more "normal" platforms than a tank.

Said that, it has rear storage space as, for example, the merkava. It can carry in that space extra ammo, stretchers or, as Furia said, a couple of explorers.

But Ssnake is right. In the Spanish Cavalry, as it´s used as a tank, the explorers are in the acompanying VECs and they don´t carry more personnel than the crew. Could they? Sure!.

I think that it could be a nice addition to the SB Centauro, as it does not modify the vehicle and in the PE you can use the vehicle in other roles like heavy reconnaisance without accompanying VECs.

[Graycap]

It should be remembered that along with recon there was another operational problem that this vehicle was envisaged to solve: the defence of the long and exposed Italian peninsular part of the country from the menace of "desant" operation and possible amphibious operations from soviet forces. Defence of fleet ports, the capital, airbases...

 

Long distances to cover, difficult roads (e.g. small bridges), no armoured heavy-weight adversaries. 

 

The result was this vehicle. But the world changed a lot from the original need.

It had to enter in service with two other vehicles: IVECO Puma 2-axles and IVECO Puma 3-axles. These other vehicles didn't survive the strategic change. They were deployed in Afghanistan but there were problems with IED. Also Centauro had problems with IED (non specific hull design).

 

Now it will be substituted by Centauro 2 armed with 120/44 mm smoothbore and a new hull  (if budget will allow) .

 

 

 

 

[Eicio]

1 hour ago, Graycap said:

The result was this vehicle. But the world changed a lot from the original need.

It has change, indeed. However, in my humble opinion, I believe that those multi purpose light weight wheeled vehicles are invaluable assets for any armed forces.

 

In terms of budget it's a win win : three times cheaper than an ariete, lighter (which means less expensive to bring around the world) and wheels to have a better fuel autonomy.

 

It's agility allow it to travel a great deal of distance on it's own, this without tiring the crew as a tracked vehicle would, with a much than decent speed.

 

Perhaps it would prove outdated in the case of a full scale modern country but in the kind of low intensity conflicts that happen pretty much every year, unfortunately, this tool is a great deal.

 

1 hour ago, Graycap said:

Also Centauro had problems with IED (non specific hull design).

Undeniably that would be a serious problem.

[Ssnake]

Light is great, as long as the enemy doesn't/can't throw heavy punches. Once that your assets are melting away like snow on a hot summer day the losses quickly exceed all previous savings. Most militaries are heavily concerned with force protection because a lot of bad stuff can happen real fast, and then you may be in a situation from which it's hard if not impossible to recover. If you can send wave after wave of light forces your Generals may have room for error, and learn from their mistakes, but it's a very costly way of learning. The problem is thought, you just don't have the huge fleets, let alone the number of crews for such a learning strategy.

 

 

To me, there are no "medium" forces. You go in light, or heavy. If the enemy can't harm your "medium" forces, they are effectively "heavy". But if they are vulnerable, treat them as "light" forces. "Medium" is, to me, the equivalent of business buzzwords, usually thrown around by people who don't know what they are talking about (or by intellectually dishonest people, that includes some generals).

[Grenny]

As by the OCSE criteria, the centauro is a tank.

 

Weight greater then 16to

Gun bigger the 50mm

360° turret rotation

(normaly)No dismounts...  = tank

[Gibsonm]

6 hours ago, marques said:

But Ssnake is right. In the Spanish Cavalry, as it´s used as a tank, the explorers are in the acompanying VECs and they don´t carry more personnel than the crew. Could they? Sure!.

I think that it could be a nice addition to the SB Centauro, as it does not modify the vehicle and in the PE you can use the vehicle in other roles like heavy reconnaisance without accompanying VECs.

 

Possibly "poor training" outcomes though?

 

Operators get used to dismounts in the Sim but then come real life ...

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Gibsonm

[Furia]

1 hour ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Possibly "poor training" outcomes though?

 

Operators get used to dismounts in the Sim but then come real life ...

 

I regret to respectfully disagree. it is the scenario editor who defines the training scope and objectives. In Steel Beasts, vehicles can be added with our without dismounts and such dismmounst can carry multiple types of weapons.

We have recently incorporated in 4.1 the capability of active protection systems to vehicles that in reality have not such system installed although they could eventually have it.

If the option to transport a 2 dismounts exists in the vehicle, why it should not be an option to use is or not by the scenario designer?

The sim allows very creative combinations, such loading US ATGM team carrying an Javelin in a BMP-2.

I can even  install an active protection system in the Centauro that is not used in real life but I cannot carry 2 dismounts that although this profile is not actually in use by the Spanish Army in a regular basis, the capacity to do so exists.

As scenario designer I would like to have the option to define how the vehicles are equiped and what loadaouts are carried.

SB allows a nice variety of combinations.

I do not see a „negative training curve“ gives me options to select vehicles loadout, ammunition, soldier uniform colour or optional weapons.

The scenario designer is  in my opinion responsible to configure such option in a way they meet the scope and criteria of the intended training objectives

[Gibsonm]

I'm sorry, but the reason why I quoted @marques was to reply to him.

 

In his context my comment has merit.

 

He is training soldiers on this type of kit.

 

If his soldiers get accustomed to having dismounts in the classroom and then go to the field, there may well be a negative training outcome.

 

The comments were not intended to be general in nature, of course you can do whatever you want.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Gibsonm

[Furia]

1 hour ago, Gibsonm said:

I'm sorry, but the reason why I quoted @marques was to reply to him.

 

In his context my comment has merit.

 

He is training soldiers on this type of kit.

 

If his soldiers get accustomed to having dismounts in the classroom and then go to the field, there may well be a negative training outcome.

 

The comments were not intended to be general in nature, of course you can do whatever you want.

 

I think Marques post and comment about about this subject are related to the PE version and for this reason I do not think it may have a negative impact in the training of military organizations.

 

9 hours ago, marques said:

I think that it could be a nice addition to the SB Centauro, as it does not modify the vehicle and in the PE you can use the vehicle in other roles like heavy reconnaisance without accompanying VECs.

Pls pls pls, give us the two dismounts option 😉

Edited August 21, 2019 by Furia

[Maj.Hans]

I'll weigh in with my thoughts on the dismounts...

 

I seem to recall that they were included in a prior version of ProPE...Maybe I remember wrong...

I think it would be nice to have the *OPTION* to *ADD* dismounts to the vehicle in the scenario editor, and perhaps simply not include them by default.

 

I think that there are currently several vehicles in ProPE that don't carry dismounts by default but can have them added on in the mission editor.

[Bond_Villian]

4 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

I think that there are currently several vehicles in ProPE that don't carry dismounts by default but can have them added on in the mission editor.

Ala Aslav 25