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DF30 and DF90 scenario

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3 hours ago, stormrider_sp said:

Regarding the DF-90, lately I was testing a peculiar unit, which is of interest to me for other reasons and the results quite surprised me. I used Armored Brigade for these tests because it allows for any kinds of mods: units, maps...

That's a huge part of the fun of SB and I'm glad you enjoy that as much as I do :)  What you are doing seems similar to what the SADF did with Ratel's back in the 80s. 

 

https://samilhistory.com/2016/03/01/sadf-ratel-ifv-taking-out-a-soviet-t-54-tank-in-close-combat/

 

Re GibsonMs excellent advice re flanking. If possible, I go a step further and let the enemy pass me then hit them from behind from reverse slope positions that enable pop up tactics and an escape route. I try to position to hit them from at least two locations 45 degrees off their rear so that even if they turn to engage, the other position has a perfect flank shot. If available, I put down a little DPICM across their front as that stops them and causes them to back up and mill around. Just remember to bug out before the enemy artillery arrives :)  I'm starting to regard Javelin (and Spike against vehicles other than Armata) as a bit of a "cheat" because you can easily drop infantry off from a vehicle in dead ground so they can crawl forward and take shots from 2.5 km out with near impunity. The system is so effective in SB (and to a slightly lesser extent apparently in real life) that you have to come up with reasons not to use it.

Edited by ChrisWerb

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On 12/21/2019 at 1:34 PM, ChrisWerb said:

I actually love the DF30 for all its faults and the JIM-LR so much that I wrote the SB manual for it :).


I agree I really like the DF30 now,  the cannon is highly effective against IFVs and Infantry, and even at long ranges with HE.

 

The DF90 doesn’t seem to bring much benefit over the 30.  It still can’t kill tanks, and has slow rate of fire.

 

It’s strange with the SPIKE bug , because I have never seen it, getting locked on to a dead target has never happened in my many hours of play testing this scenario?!

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On 12/23/2019 at 7:07 AM, ben said:


I agree I really like the DF30 now,  the cannon is highly effective against IFVs and Infantry, and even at long ranges with HE.

 

The DF90 doesn’t seem to bring much benefit over the 30.  It still can’t kill tanks, and has slow rate of fire.

 

It’s strange with the SPIKE bug , because I have never seen it, getting locked on to a dead target has never happened in my many hours of play testing this scenario?!

Ben, I wouldn't recommend facing off with T-15 Armata HIFVs with a DF-30 under any circumstances, but you can cause them a bit of a nuisance if you man the gunner's position on the DF-30 and try to achieve a keyhole ambush, from hull down, where you only have to take on one of them. APFSDS-T is highly effective against the turret/RWS, especially side and rear on, but remember that sometimes the vehicle will retain ATGW capability along a limited arc even with the turret drive taken out. It can also immobilise, sometimes by track cutting, but I would not attempt that until you've taken out the turret/RWS. MP-T is very good at smashing up vulnerable systems on, or penetrating the exterior of the vehicle - probably not as good as 35mm KETF-T, but still very good.  Occasionally you might even pull off an amazing fluke like this :)

 



 

Fluke.jpg

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I have found that the DF-30 is also highly effective vs T-14 Armatas given appropriate terrain and tactics. With APFSDS-T it will kill the Armata with side, ammo carousel shots up to at least 2000 metres. The limiting factor is accuracy at longer ranges - it takes more rounds to hit in the right spot. At ranges under 1000 metres often the first or second shot is lethal - at this distance or closer I tend to set the gun to full auto - in testing I can't remember it taking more than four rounds to kill. If  the enemy is hull down from side or rear, rounds placed into the turret bustle will take out the turret drive and FCS, but you also then need to immediately take out the RWS which will often survive and can kill you with 12.7x107mm. Frontally, you're better off using MP-T as it is exceedingly unlikely you will penetrate with sabot/fin at any range and the MP-T gives good "splash" damage through forward arc fragmentation. Start by shooting into the front glacis which should put fragments into the GPS, then aim directly for the GPS and rapidly transition to the RWS. This should leave the vehicle effectively impotent.

 

As a PS to the previous post, hits to the T-15 BMP Armata's unmanned weapons module/RWS will sometimes cause catastrophic explosions/kills to the vehicle from penetrations with either fin/sabot or MP-T. I'm not sure what is actually exploding - does HEI-T sympathetically detonate or are spare missiles stored inside the mount? The latter doesn't seem feasible dimensionally.

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I just played your scenario (the first one I have downloaded in over three years playing SB) and really enjoyed it. The only thing I'd criticise would be the extremely lavish scale of issue of Spike MR as pointed out by GibsonM.  The Belgian Land Component allegedly only purchased 66 Spike MR missile systems so your company had about 18% of their entire inventory.  I still had a lot of fun though. Keep up the good work! :)

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5 hours ago, ChrisWerb said:

I just played your scenario (the first one I have downloaded in over three years playing SB) and really enjoyed it. The only thing I'd criticise would be the extremely lavish scale of issue of Spike MR as pointed out by GibsonM.  The Belgian Land Component allegedly only purchased 66 Spike MR missile systems so your company had about 18% of their entire inventory.  I still had a lot of fun though. Keep up the good work! :)

 

Thanks Chris.
I have addressed that over supply of Spikes in a new version, but haven’t had time to test it and release it yet!

I will update it as soon as family/work allows :)

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On 12/22/2019 at 12:53 PM, Gibsonm said:

 

Because its not a tank ... ? ;)

 

Seriously though if you employ tanks frontally they will die too.

 

If you are shooting at the enemy's frontal arc then you are in a poor battle position. Flanking fire is your friend.

 

Late reply, but...someone has to do the frontal bind IOT allow for a flanking move 😉 

 

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Hi all, I have just released an update to this mission for anyone who’s interested.

 

I have reduced the number of SPIKE teams and also reduced their missile count.  Missile teams are now separate from the Infantry company.  It’s less unrealistic than before :)

 

I have added the third Infantry Platoon of the company, giving you more boots on the ground to hold the objective. For more challenge you could leave one platoon in reserve.

 

The SPIKE teams from the weapons company have a couple of Pinzgauer trucks for mobility.

 

Any feedback is welcome as always.

 

 

Edited by ben

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On 2/13/2020 at 2:27 PM, ben said:

Hi all, I have just released an update to this mission for anyone who’s interested.

 

I have reduced the number of SPIKE teams and also reduced their missile count.  Missile teams are now separate from the Infantry company.  It’s less unrealistic than before :)

 

I have added the third Infantry Platoon of the company, giving you more boots on the ground to hold the objective. For more challenge you could leave one platoon in reserve.

 

The SPIKE teams from the weapons company have a couple of Pinzgauer trucks for mobility.

 

Any feedback is welcome as always.

 

 

Trying to beat the mission, but still no success. 

 

How do you suggest to do it?

 

Usually I take the big southern hill, covered in forests and try to destroy the targets with the missiles from cover,,, Anyway bad routing and a lot of missiles in enemy team stop me.

 

At H+60 tanks are coming. Am I supposed to stop them as well?

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2 hours ago, solus said:

Trying to beat the mission, but still no success. 

 

How do you suggest to do it?

 

Usually I take the big southern hill, covered in forests and try to destroy the targets with the missiles from cover,,, Anyway bad routing and a lot of missiles in enemy team stop me.

 

At H+60 tanks are coming. Am I supposed to stop them as well?


Hi solus

 

Here are some ideas for beating it;

 

Yes you must try to stop the enemy battalion attack at H+60 including the tanks.

 

Your recce teams in the LMVs are one key to success, they have JIMLR binoculars with Thermals and massive zoom capability (Bloody hard to use thanks to the complicated controls!).

 

With these teams you can get overwatch of the whole objective.

 

Spot tanks, call in ICM missions on them.

 

Spot Missile teams, call in airstrikes on them.

 

For any remaining tanks, sneak SPIKE teams through the forests to hit them.

 

Don’t waste SPIKES on anything but Tanks.

 

Use DF30 and 90 to take out PCs in objective.

 

Get SPIKE teams set up in the south as you mentioned, ready for the enemy main body.

 

Rush your infantry into objective in time to set up defensively before the enemy main body.


Prioritise Tanks with your missiles.

 

Hope that helps!

Edited by ben

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