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MisterCommander

Can't win Tanks! with the M60A3.

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I love the Tanks! scenario where you have to kill 9 enemy units.

When I play with the Centauro, I whoop ass.  If I am sloppy I get 5 or 6 kills, but if I play like I am supposed to I can get all 9.  Therefore I do have a history of not being a complete loser.

 

However, when I play with the M60A3 tank I get killed so easy.  The best I have done is to get 1 kill out of 10 plays, once.  My shortest game was about 60 seconds when a T-55 got me while I was still in the woods where I started.  Have not even moved yet.  Thought I'd be save for more than a minute at the spawn point.  My longest game was about 15 minutes.

 

And if I am even lucky enough to hit something it won't die.  I once hit a PC at 1500 meters twice and it just drove off like I was not even there.  The first hit was Heavy Damage, and the second was crew casualties, and then it drove into cover.  WTF.

 

Also, I seem to get swarmed by 2 or 3 different vehicles at the same time from difference directions every time.  They can see me, but I cannot see them.  Cannot see them daylight, binoculars, nor TIS, but they can see me well enough to get a kill.  Not just a hit or damage, but a kill.  I am seriously looking for them.

 

I am not just driving around at top speed out in the open either.  I am using every bit of cover I can.  Staying close to the edge of the battle area, and using hills and forest to block enemy view in multiple directions and limiting exposure as much as possible.  I have even tried to just stay in the woods the whole time and scout from there.

 

Is there a beacon or something that I am supposed to turn off so that they do not gang up on me with x-ray vision?  What is the strategy to not be a total luser in the M60 in this scenario? 

 

 

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M60 is huge (and slow as a pigeon out of molasses). What you will probably find is that you can't see them because you are up so high and the trees block your view. They, however, can probably  see your running gear under the trees.

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Having served on the M60/M60A1/M60A3 I can tell you that is not represented well in regards to speed.  So far as Fire Power,  an M68 Cannon and 105mm ammo should give you penetration capable of stopping and destroying a T72.  The A3's were a hold over until the Abrams was fielded. Fired many rounds down range at Tank Table 8,  stab platform speed 16 - 18 mph, fenders not vibrating sight stabilized "On the way!" Not sure if its modeled or not but the draw back of a 60 is that the gunners primary sight is slaved to the gun.  A 10hp motor would scream as it tried to maintain hydraulic pressure during a stab on the move run.  After every engagement I would six pack out the LRF clearing the range.  Ensure that the gunner was DUMPING LEAD.  Re-lase and engage.  ARM LAST RETURN. (Desert) 1st RETURN (Woodland)

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Well, the speed is basic mathematical calculation between mass and horsepower (power to weight ratio) and then combined with its known top speed, so its not like its rocket science. It should be an accurate representation, unless the transmission is something special that allowed it to reach 0-X kph in very short amount of time which would not be typical for its raw data. But it should be close. Also keep in mind that the tank is certainly going to be much faster in speed and acceleration on roads.

 

But in regards to the original post...

 

Without having seen the scenario in question, it could be that the enemy tank types might need to be downgraded. This is often true of scenarios which have the playable vehicle swapped out with a different one.

 

We have to remember that the M60 was originally designed to fight against the T-55 and T-62 (and early T-64), where it performed well in that role versus the ammunition the Soviets had at the time. Later on with the A3 advancements, it was an attempt to prolong its life to fight against modernized T-55s, T-62s and the T-72, the latter of which could probably considered a more even match although the M60A3 would still be considered superior. M60A3 with TIS disabled, versus the T-55AM or T-72A can be fun, but tough.

 

Then we have the TTS, a further attempt to prolong its lifespan, in which case by this time the M60 was becoming obsolete and at the limit of its capability.  Its big advantage at this point was that it would dominate the Soviets during night combat and low visibility with its thermal sight, but in day time it would lose much of that superiority. The M60A3(TTS) actually has a better thermal sight than the M1 (both in real life and in Steel Beasts).  Anyway, this is mostly why the M60 tank platoons had 5 tanks, and the M1 tank platoons had 4 tanks.

 

To make a long story short, the M60 is a good tank (so is the Leo 1 and T-72), but as with anything in the 1960s-1980s this depends on the match up.  If that scenario has many T-72s in it and its day time then is naturally going to be very difficult! 😮

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The M60A3 isn't a tank I use frequently but I've always felt like it's main limitation was the gun, not the tank itself.  The armor and the mobility might not be great, and the fire control system takes more attention than I would like...But...The LRF beats many of the soviet fire control systems, and this TTS sight is OUTSTANDING.

 

Going back to the bigger gun point, I wish we had perhaps looked more into the M60-2000 or M60-120S, even if only for the export market...  I don't like the idea of the Sabra/Magach series...Leaving unprotected combustible case main gun ammo lying around just doesn't seem wise...

 

On 1/23/2020 at 5:23 PM, Volcano said:

M60A3 with TIS disabled, versus the T-55AM or T-72A can be fun, but tough.

I will reiterate my request to have the earlier M60A3 Passive, featuring a passive IR night sight, modeled in Steel Beasts.  We already have 90% of it in game, I think it would be great to leverage off of what we have, where we can, to add more content.

 

Furthermore I will reiterate my request to have a passive IR night sight added to the Leopard AS1, or alternatively, to have a copy of the Leopard AS1 put into the game as "Leopard 2A4" featuring a passive IR night sight...

 

Sadly NATO tanks in this sim are stuck jumping from no night optics, to the TTS/TIS sights that basically turn them into invincible death knights on tracks.

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On 1/23/2020 at 9:52 PM, Michael Ramsey said:

Having served on the M60/M60A1/M60A3 I can tell you that is not represented well in regards to speed.  So far as Fire Power,  an M68 Cannon and 105mm ammo should give you penetration capable of stopping and destroying a T72.  The A3's were a hold over until the Abrams was fielded. Fired many rounds down range at Tank Table 8,  stab platform speed 16 - 18 mph, fenders not vibrating sight stabilized "On the way!" Not sure if its modeled or not but the draw back of a 60 is that the gunners primary sight is slaved to the gun.  A 10hp motor would scream as it tried to maintain hydraulic pressure during a stab on the move run.  After every engagement I would six pack out the LRF clearing the range.  Ensure that the gunner was DUMPING LEAD.  Re-lase and engage.  ARM LAST RETURN. (Desert) 1st RETURN (Woodland)

the slow speed is an illusion. 
the tank appears to drive slow because the 2D screen gives you no depth perception, and you have a very limited FOV. 
you can see the same effect when you film while you drive, then watch the film of you driving afterwards. Real life will seem much faster than the film.

the one issue SB might have is that our tanks have somewhat slow acceleration. 

Edited by dejawolf

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On 2/11/2020 at 5:00 PM, dejawolf said:

the slow speed is an illusion. 
the tank appears to drive slow because the 2D screen gives you no depth perception, and you have a very limited FOV. 
you can see the same effect when you film while you drive, then watch the film of you driving afterwards. Real life will seem much faster than the film.

the one issue SB might have is that our tanks have somewhat slow acceleration. 

Excuse me but is that a blue falcon?

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