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Can't win Tanks! with the M60A3.


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1 hour ago, RedWardancer said:

So, the M60 series is more hype than anything?  In SB, the tank seems to have a glass jaw against incoming fire in every scenario I have used them in.

Let's be frank here - show me a tank in Steel Beasts that doesn't have a glass jaw, if you throw the right ammunition at it and hit the right spot; the sole exceptions that come to mind are the M1A2 SEP (not because the armor is impenetrable but because the explodey parts are kept separate from the crew), and the Armata (which is Russia's latest and greatest, so it should perform significantly better than a tank that is 40 years older).

 

If you want to judge the performance of the M60 from a Steel Beasts scenario, you have to make sure to get the conditions right:

The M60 should be pitched against T-55 and T-62. That's what it was designed for.

The M60 won't have better than slightly under parity chances against T-72 unless you give it 105mm APFSDS from the mid 1990s.

In order for the M60 to have a significant advantage, make sure to have the heavy thumb of bad visibility conditions on the scale so that the balance shifts in favor of the better fire control system, long engagement distances, and a thermal imager.

 

The M60 has comparatively thick armor for the time, but it's homogeneous cast steel, where HEAT rounds perform best. Having the laser with the commander is one of those design decisions that reflect more the lack of confidence in laser range finders at the time when they were introduced. I understand people who prefer the M60A3 over the Leopard 1A5 in that the M60 gives you a "better feeling" but at the end of the day they both winn end up equally dead if hit by a large caliber HEAT warhead. They both need the advantage of the better fire control system and the thermal imager over their main adversaries, T-55 and T-62, in order to prevail in situations of numerical disadvantage. The Leopard 1 is considerably faster, but at the end of the day you can't outrun a bullet.

 

At least, that's my "nutshell assessment". Take it for what it's worth.

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Maybe the scenario should be tuned for whichever Blue vehicle you select?

 

If Blue selects M1A2 SEP then Red spawns T-90 (or similar).

 

If Blue selects M1A1 (HA) then Red spawns T-72 (or similar).

 

If Blue select M60A3 then Red spawns T-62 (or similar).

 

And similar entries for whatever Blue options exist.

 

Then at least the conversation would be based on "like for like"?

 

Edited by Gibsonm
Typo
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It is worth mentioning that I noticed a massive increase in the M60A3's lethality between this (4.250) and the previous update. Before a Company of TAMs would routinely slaughter an entire Company of M60A3s (all AI controlled.) Now, this is no longer the case. I ran a test between a Company of M60A3s and a Company of T-72B1s (all using the most modern ammo) and the affair was quite one sided with zero losses for Blue. Before it seemed like the M60A3s would hesitate and take a very long time to fire. Not anymore, thankfully. 

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Yeah, if you check the version history in the Release Notes for M60 related bugfixes, you'll find a few. It's mostly behavior changes, I don't think that we changed the armor protection model at all.

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