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Scrapper_511

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Hello folks. Parts for my new system build have started arriving at my doorstep and before I order more parts, I'm asking for recommendations here (after all, this rig is practically being built around SB).

 

So far I've got an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 and an MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX motherboard. I'm likely to re-use my 250GB SSD, 1TB SATA hard drive and GeForce GTX 1050ti. The Tomahawk B450 board is M.2 storage capable; I'm totally new to this tech, but I think I will install SB and all map content on a M.2 SSD. First question arises here: Is a 1TB M.2 SSD big and reliable enough to install all SB content in (I will be editing maps frequently)? FYI, in my current setup, I have the 250Gig SSD sharing Win7 and SB which was fine until map-editing proved that 250Gigs was not enough. I will use my previous 250 GB SSD to solely boot Win10.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is RAM. Does SB benefit from 32GB of memory? Anyone have a recommendation for the fastest and most reliable brand and model?

 

This is all I can type and think of at the moment, so I will post this before retiring for the evening. Thanks in advance...

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scrapper_511 said:

First question arises here: Is a 1TB M.2 SSD big and reliable enough to install all SB content in (I will be editing maps frequently)? FYI, in my current setup, I have the 250Gig SSD sharing Win7 and SB which was fine until map-editing proved that 250Gigs was not enough. I will use my previous 250 GB SSD to solely boot Win10.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is RAM. Does SB benefit from 32GB of memory? Anyone have a recommendation for the fastest and most reliable brand and model?

1) YES.

A 1TByte SSD is big enough, and so far with all my SSDs I had no trouble with reliability. Be sure though to fill an SSD only to about 80% capacity. They have a mechanism called "wear leveling" where they try to shift often used data to storage cells that haven't been used often, and that will work only if there's actually empty storage space to shift things around, This is not to be confused with the "overprovisioning" that all SSDs do where a certain percentage of the disk is reserved to replace defective storage cells. The point of wear leveling is to delay the reliance on "repair by overprovisioning" for as long as possible.

 

I don't think that the use of M2 SSDs bears any significant advantage over SATA SSDs in practice. Yes, they can be a bit faster but the occasions where these bandwidth advantages can be used to the full extent are rare. SSDs that are fast in reading and writing small files usually offer a much bigger benefit in our daily lives.

 

2) RAM.

Steel Beasts can benefit from more RAM if you're converting custom made maps from 3.x/4.0 format. For the vast majority of users 16 GByte are good enough.

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8 hours ago, Scrapper_511 said:

Hello folks. Parts for my new system build have started arriving at my doorstep and before I order more parts, I'm asking for recommendations here (after all, this rig is practically being built around SB).

 

So far I've got an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 and an MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX motherboard. I'm likely to re-use my 250GB SSD, 1TB SATA hard drive and GeForce GTX 1050ti. The Tomahawk B450 board is M.2 storage capable; I'm totally new to this tech, but I think I will install SB and all map content on a M.2 SSD. First question arises here: Is a 1TB M.2 SSD big and reliable enough to install all SB content in (I will be editing maps frequently)? FYI, in my current setup, I have the 250Gig SSD sharing Win7 and SB which was fine until map-editing proved that 250Gigs was not enough. I will use my previous 250 GB SSD to solely boot Win10.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is RAM. Does SB benefit from 32GB of memory? Anyone have a recommendation for the fastest and most reliable brand and model?

 

This is all I can type and think of at the moment, so I will post this before retiring for the evening. Thanks in advance...

 

 

 

 

I have the same baisc system as you and I've already killed a few of its ghosts. 1TB SSD is more than enough and I suggest you use that as your boot drive and leave the old smaller one for fast storage. I have one that's half the size + 1TB HDD and a 512GB Backup HDD. Great choice on the Tomahawk. First thing as soon as you start, go to Bios and check hardware. Check that everything is up and running; activate XMP memory (if your memory supports it). I have 16GBs RAM and I think it's enough although I made the mistake of cheaping out there without knowing of the benefits of using faster RAM with Ryzen. Mine is 3000Mhz XMP. The recommended is 3200 to 3600. Next is getting all the system updated, firmwares, MSI liveupdate and then setting up your cooling scheme in BIOS. I tried using the other system temperature sensors to control my system fans (I have 4) but it was a waste of time. Use only the CPU temp sensor for all your sysfans. Mine runs nice and silent at around 700-800rpm (3 intake (1x140mm 2x120mm) + 1x140mm exhaust) and a steep ramp to 100% fan rpm at 80C. Usually it tops at 65C-70C while heavy gaming or 'productiviting').

 

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Wondering about the graphics card, the GeForce 1050ti.  Steel Beasts Pro PE is constantly upgrading everything (thankfully!) and one area that requires us Treadheads to keep up with is graphics.  Would it make sense to grab the best GPU available so that one doesn't have to upgrade every three years or so with something less efficient?  On this, I found out that having a great GPU is fine, but the power is a less-known problem (especially to tech idiots like myself).  Will your power unit support anything greater than 450W for a better card?  What I have in my PC is a GeForce 745 which is not up to par with the current SB version.  Best I can do is upgrade to a GeForce 1066 Super which is not the best but better than what I have, but still limited to anything better because the power unit goes up to 460W only.  

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On 1/29/2020 at 12:51 AM, Ssnake said:

Be sure though to fill an SSD only to about 80% capacity. They have a mechanism called "wear leveling" where they try to shift often used data to storage cells that haven't been used often, and that will work only if there's actually empty storage space to shift things around,

 

2) RAM.

Steel Beasts can benefit from more RAM if you're converting custom made maps from 3.x/4.0 format. For the vast majority of users 16 GByte are good enough.

Thanks for that bit about wear leveling, Ssnake; I'd never heard of it.

 

On 1/29/2020 at 8:24 AM, stormrider_sp said:

The recommended is 3200 to 3600

Upgrading to the Ryzen makes my Geforce 1050ti the major bottleneck now and investing in expensive CAS 14 RAM in 3200-3600 class doesn't seem like a good choice unless I have a top-end GPU which I am not spending more than $300 for. Gonna take some time finding the sweet spot for me here.

Thanks for the heads-up, storm'!

2 minutes ago, RedWardancer said:

Wondering about the graphics card, the GeForce 1050ti. Would it make sense to grab the best GPU available so that one doesn't have to upgrade every three years or so with something less efficient?  On this, I found out that having a great GPU is fine, but the power is a less-known problem (especially to tech idiots like myself).  Will your power unit support anything greater than 450W for a better card? Best I can do is upgrade to a GeForce 1066 Super which is not the best but better than what I have, but still limited to anything better because the power unit goes up to 460W only.

Hi Red'. After a quick search I learned that the 1066 requires 400W. I don't think your 460W supply leaves much room for "error". As far as CPUs go, consider ones with the best single-thread performance you can afford. I have a 650W PS if you were wondering.

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1 hour ago, Scrapper_511 said:

Thanks for that bit about wear leveling, Ssnake; I'd never heard of it.

 

Upgrading to the Ryzen makes my Geforce 1050ti the major bottleneck now and investing in expensive CAS 14 RAM in 3200-3600 class doesn't seem like a good choice unless I have a top-end GPU which I am not spending more than $300 for. Gonna take some time finding the sweet spot for me here.

Thanks for the heads-up, storm'!

Hi Red'. After a quick search I learned that the 1066 requires 400W. I don't think your 460W supply leaves much room for "error". As far as CPUs go, consider ones with the best single-thread performance you can afford. I have a 650W PS if you were wondering.

$300? I got my 1070 Ti on ebay (used) for £130 pounds more than 6 months ago!

Edited by stormrider_sp

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16 minutes ago, stormrider_sp said:

$300? I got my 1070 Ti on ebay (used) for £130 pounds more than 6 months ago!

No, not the 1070. What I meant was: a top end card currently costs upwards of $300USD, which I will not spend on a single part. I am considering GPUs w/ 6GB that are well below that price-point. 🙂

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3 minutes ago, Scrapper_511 said:

No, not the 1070. What I meant was: a top end card currently costs upwards of $300USD, which I will not spend on a single part. I am considering GPUs w/ 6GB that are well below that price-point. 🙂

You didnt understand what I said. I didnt recommend that you buy a 1070 ti, I said that you could get something of that level (or better) on ebay, used, for quite a bargain these days.

Edited by stormrider_sp

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4 minutes ago, stormrider_sp said:

You didnt understand what I said. I didnt recommend that you buy a 1070 ti, I said that you could get something of that level (or better) on ebay, used, for quite a bargain these days.

Oh gotcha, thanks. No used parts for me, and no eBay neither. 😀 Glad it worked out for you though, and after seeing what 1070s go for,  you got quite the deal!

Edited by Scrapper_511

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6 hours ago, RedWardancer said:

Wondering about the graphics card, the GeForce 1050ti.  Steel Beasts Pro PE is constantly upgrading everything (thankfully!) and one area that requires us Treadheads to keep up with is graphics.  Would it make sense to grab the best GPU available so that one doesn't have to upgrade every three years or so with something less efficient?  On this, I found out that having a great GPU is fine, but the power is a less-known problem (especially to tech idiots like myself).  Will your power unit support anything greater than 450W for a better card?  What I have in my PC is a GeForce 745 which is not up to par with the current SB version.  Best I can do is upgrade to a GeForce 1066 Super which is not the best but better than what I have, but still limited to anything better because the power unit goes up to 460W only.  

I would consider a GeForce GTX 1070 or equivalent/better "quite future proof" for a good while. Going much higher is of course possible if you have the money to spare, but many people don't. In this context I think that the 1070 hits the sweet spot where it's not outrageously expensive and still has a considerable lifetime in it. I'm less optimistic about the 1050 or even 1060, simply because the changes that we made in the render engine between version 4.0 and 4.1 actually help to boost frame rates considerably with powerful graphics cards. With 1060s the gains in framerate were usually "meh" - a bit better in some places, slightly worse in other scenes. With powerful graphics cards version 4.1 can these days meet my (rather demanding) criteria for "good" or even "great" performance (where for "good performance" the average frame rate must stay above 48 and not dip under 40 in any scene; "great" performance is reserved for machines where the frame rate never dips under 55). Even a GTX 1080 was struggling with version 4.0 to reach a "good" performance rating, now it will almost earn the "great" rating.

I don't expect future versions of SB Pro PE to throw a significantly bigger workload at the graphics cards, rather, to utilize untapped reserves even better. Which leads me to be relatively optimistic that a 1070 will deliver good Steel Beasts performance for years to come.

 

 

Replacing a power supply unit is possible and wouldn't cost the world - but of course, the more parts you replace, the costs add up. 

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The GeForce GTX 1070 requires a power of 500W, while my rig goes up to 460W.  Seems like this would cause problems.  I spoke with a Dell representative who informed me that my motherboard will not support a Power Unit upgrade.  It's possible the rep was incorrect, but I'll take their word for it.  When I play a small, platoon sized scenario, things work fine.  But a regiment sized scenario clearly causes problems (ruuuun-skip-ruuuun-skip, etc).  I have plenty of RAM (32) and a good processor (Intel Core it-6700 @3.41GHz), using up only 9% of my TB Harddrive.  But I'm positive the graphics card is obsolete.  

 

Does this mean I need a new PC?  Or will the 1070 still operate with what I have?  Or....is there another way?

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Under these circumstances an upgrade to a 1070 appears somewhat of a challenge. Mind you, most of the time the 1070 will NOT require the full 150W for which it is specified (also, the question is what other components you have in your PC that draw power; if there's few other peripherals it might just work out). These are usually just short peaks. But even then, you don't really want to risk that.

I suppose a GTX 1660 is your next best option, at 30W peak consumption less. Note that there's also the 1660Ti which nominally demands the same wattage but which is much higher priced at only marginally better performance.

 

The GTX1660 comes overclocked from the factory. If you want to be extra safe I'd reduce the overclocking a little bit to shave off peak power consumption even more. You should then be fine. I'd recommend to consult a local computer shop to get a second opinion on this, and to let them do the graphics card swap. If anything bad happens, they'd have to assume responsibility.

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3 hours ago, RedWardancer said:

The GeForce GTX 1070 requires a power of 500W, while my rig goes up to 460W.  Seems like this would cause problems.  I spoke with a Dell representative who informed me that my motherboard will not support a Power Unit upgrade.  It's possible the rep was incorrect, but I'll take their word for it.  When I play a small, platoon sized scenario, things work fine.  But a regiment sized scenario clearly causes problems (ruuuun-skip-ruuuun-skip, etc).  I have plenty of RAM (32) and a good processor (Intel Core it-6700 @3.41GHz), using up only 9% of my TB Harddrive.  But I'm positive the graphics card is obsolete.  

 

Does this mean I need a new PC?  Or will the 1070 still operate with what I have?  Or....is there another way?

Mine, I paid £50, is an EVGA 600BQ Bronze that powered a motherboard probably one or two generations older than yours (Z87 + 4770k). You have a 6700k, I don't believe that your motherboard don't support a better PSU, that's just really really hard to believe.

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Also, when it comes to GPUs under $300, keep an eye open for the new AMDs. I have seen very good reviews about them recently. RX 5600, RX 5600 XT and even RX 5700.

 

 

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Thanks for the video. I'm leaning towards a 2060 Super. On the other hand, these new cards don't have DVI, which means I'll have to upgrade my monitor as well.

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11 hours ago, Ssnake said:

There are converters. :)

My immediate concern is that a brand new monitor is not going to fly under the wife's radar. :D Fortunately, as far as my wallet is concerned, a good replacement can be had for cheap; possibly making this the least expensive component of this build!

 

Tankenator, yes I am considering SSDs for storage, although my existing SSD will likely be carried over.

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13 hours ago, Scrapper_511 said:

My immediate concern is that a brand new monitor is not going to fly under the wife's radar. :D Fortunately, as far as my wallet is concerned, a good replacement can be had for cheap; possibly making this the least expensive component of this build!

 

Tankenator, yes I am considering SSDs for storage, although my existing SSD will likely be carried over.

Do you already have a 144hz monitor?

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9 hours ago, stormrider_sp said:

Do you already have a 144hz monitor?

I don't think so. It's a 20" LG 2040T LED monitor.

 

Anyway, this turned out to be a complete replacement of an entire PC setup, instead of an incremental upgrade. This if fine, but I do have to spread out the purchases a bit more which will delay the complete assembly. Would appreciate RAM (specific brand/model) and monitor recommendations, at the moment.

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18 minutes ago, Scrapper_511 said:

I don't think so. It's a 20" LG 2040T LED monitor.

 

Anyway, this turned out to be a complete replacement of an entire PC setup, instead of an incremental upgrade. This if fine, but I do have to spread out the purchases a bit more which will delay the complete assembly. Would appreciate RAM (specific brand/model) and monitor recommendations, at the moment.

For the monitor I very much recommend any 144hz. Mine, like everything else I have, I found on ebay, used, for £112 back in 2018. It's an Acer GN246HLBbid 24" 144hz Gaming monitor. I love it and would never go back to 60hz.

Regarding memory, you should be aware that not all memories are fully compatible with AMD Ryzen processor. Mine again, is a Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x 8GB) 3000MHz DDR4 (CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 ). It works great. If you can, get it in 3200 or 3600mhz as it is said, Ryzen 3600 likes faster memory.

 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450-TOMAHAWK-MAX#support-mem-12

 

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On 2/3/2020 at 12:14 PM, stormrider_sp said:

For the monitor I very much recommend any 144hz. Mine, like everything else I have, I found on ebay, used, for £112 back in 2018. It's an Acer GN246HLBbid 24" 144hz Gaming monitor. I love it and would never go back to 60hz.

Regarding memory, you should be aware that not all memories are fully compatible with AMD Ryzen processor. Mine again, is a Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x 8GB) 3000MHz DDR4 (CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 ). It works great. If you can, get it in 3200 or 3600mhz as it is said, Ryzen 3600 likes faster memory.

Thanks for the monitor recommendation. I'm leaning towards a 144hz and 1080p monitor in the sub $200 range and I see that Acer slips right under that. We'll see; I still need to read up on monitor reviews. Also, I agree on the RAM. I've never had to do so much research to find a set that'll work for my CPU/mobo (having to go through manufacturer's compatibility list is a pain). I have decided to go 32GB of DDR4 PC3200. Still narrowing down which brand and model to go with though.

 

 

As for a GPU, I've been eyeing nVidia's RTX 2060 Super, but I am not going to take advantage of Ray-Tracing and couldn't pass up on a $325USD deal for a MSI Mech OC Radeon RX5700. My most demanding games are SB and CMANO so I'm not too concerned about the temp or driver issues I've been hearing about for this card and AMD, respectively. Speaking of which, these two titles will probably end up sharing a 1TB SSD along with Win10, then I'll also get a 1TB Hdd for my other games/apps.

 

So, this build is coming together steadily. My next investment will probably be a 750W PS, Win10 and the RAM, followed by the storage devices, input devices, and finally the monitor.

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Posted (edited)

Hello again folks. Just in case any of you were curious about how this build was going, the last component (the monitor) arrived a few days ago and everything came together very nicely. The computer has been purring along very, very nicely and I finally reinstalled SB and got to see my scenarios and maps again after a very long hiatus. Where I was previously getting 23fps in extremely busy scenes, I am now getting no less than 50fps (and with details maxed out)! Ironically, this rig, along with the other PCs in my household, will mostly be relegated to home-schooling duties for at least the next several weeks.

 

Here's is a rundown of parts (in order of purchase):

AMD Ryzen 5 3600

MSI B450 Tomahawk Max

Fractal design Focus G medium tower

MSI Radeon RX5700 Mech OC

Corsair Dominator 32GB DDR4 PC3200

Samsung EVO 860 1TB SSD

Western Digital Blue 3TB Hdd

Corsair RM750x Power Supply

ASUS VG249Q (1080p, 144MHz, IPS) 24" monitor

 

I haven't built a computer from the ground, up like this since I I got an AMD K7 I think. Computer cases and fans have come a long way and it amazes me how quiet they can be even though they are so perforated for venting purposes. RGB is all the rage and I initially scoffed at it, but I myself am probably going to upgrade some fans with fine RGB ones. The Radeon RX5700 has been flawless despite all the driver and cooling problems I've read about, and it pairs very well with my ASUS monitor, which I am quite thrilled about.

 

That's that, thanks for your time. Time to update my signature...

 

 

 

Edited by Scrapper_511

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4 hours ago, Scrapper_511 said:

Hello again folks. Just in case any of you were curious about how this build was going, the last component (the monitor) arrived a few days ago and everything came together very nicely. The computer has been purring along very, very nicely and I finally reinstalled SB and got to see my scenarios and maps again after a very long hiatus. Where I was previously getting 23fps in extremely busy scenes, I am now getting no less than 50fps (and with details maxed out)! Ironically, this rig, along with the other PCs in my household, will mostly be relegated to home-schooling duties for at least the next several weeks.

 

Here's is a rundown of parts (in order of purchase):

AMD Ryzen 5 3600

MSI B450 Tomahawk Max

Fractal design Focus G medium tower

MSI Radeon RX5700 Mech OC

Corsair Dominator 32GB DDR4 PC3200

Samsung EVO 860 1TB SSD

Western Digital Blue 3TB Hdd

Corsair RM750x Power Supply

ASUS VG249Q (1080p, 144MHz, IPS) 24" monitor

 

I haven't built a computer from the ground, up like this since I I got an AMD K7 I think. Computer cases and fans have come a long way and it amazes me how quiet they can be even though they are so perforated for venting purposes. RGB is all the rage and I initially scoffed at it, but I myself am probably going to upgrade some fans with fine RGB ones. The Radeon RX5700 has been flawless despite all the driver and cooling problems I've read about, and it pairs very well with my ASUS monitor, which I am quite thrilled about.

 

That's that, thanks for your time. Time to update my signature...

 

 

 

It turned out very very nice mate! Congrats on the build. What are you using to cool your cpu?

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7 hours ago, stormrider_sp said:

It turned out very very nice mate! Congrats on the build. What are you using to cool your cpu?

Thanks stormrider. I'm really glad the Tomahawk MAX detected the CPU and RAM correctly out of the box. No fancy cooling here. Just the two 140mm included in the Fractal case, and a Phantec (sp?) 140mm pointing out back. I'm also using the stock AMD cooler! Thanks again for the RAM and monitor advise.

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