Tutorial Video Wishlist Thread

[Ssnake]

Suppose eSim would start making tutorial videos, which topic would you be most interested in learning more about?

What is that one Steel Beasts thing that you could never figure out?

Also, please tell: Do you characterize yourself as an experienced Steel Beasts player, or new to it?

[thewood]

Route logic and logic building in general.

[Lumituisku]

Forwarding this from my friend Harry Martin who is relatively new player in Steelbeast. 

Harry Martin:
The editors would be nice, particularly the map editor, and maybe a practical explanation of route and waypoint planning, as those were things it took me a while to figure out.

Vehicle specific commander/Gunner video tutorials would be nice, in the style of the Chieftain's videos on the M1 and M60

Having those for some of the less popular vehicles, or ones with obscure fire controls that don't have very informative wiki pages like the CV90NL would be good

The one thing I could never figure out is a non-clunky way to create a route path in a real time mission but not have the vehicle start to follow it immediately

Or to have multiple units start moving at once

[stormrider_sp]

Tactics 101

 

I consider myself an experienced noob in Steel Beasts.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by stormrider_sp

[Gibsonm]

1. How to link individual scenarios to form an operation.

 

2. How to easily edit themes. I currently have to pretty much create a new map to be able to access themes and I'm hoping I'm doing it incorrectly.

[Gibsonm]

10 hours ago, Lumituisku said:

The one thing I could never figure out is a non-clunky way to create a route path in a real time mission but not have the vehicle start to follow it immediately

Or to have multiple units start moving at once

 

1. Create an independent waypoint a short distance from the unit and build the route from there. When ready to embark on the route create a small route from the unit to the waypoint. The unit will move along the initial route to the way point and then continue on.

 

2. Set up groups and set the routes. You'll then have access to a right mouse click option of "embark group" or similar.

[Ssnake]

3 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

2. How to easily edit themes. I currently have to pretty much create a new map to be able to access themes and I'm hoping I'm doing it incorrectly.

Create a delta of the flat/blank/default map which you never publish, e.g. MyTHM_map. Load that map, and you can open any THM file you like and edit it to your heart's content, save that THM file etc.; the key is to never publish that delta file and to use a delta map so the disk footprint is minimal and you can keep tinkering with the same map without having to create a new one all the time.

[Gibsonm]

37 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Create a delta of the flat/blank/default map which you never publish, e.g. MyTHM_map. Load that map, and you can open any THM file you like and edit it to your heart's content, save that THM file etc.; the key is to never publish that delta file and to use a delta map so the disk footprint is minimal and you can keep tinkering with the same map without having to create a new one all the time.

Thanks very much.

[thewood]

And here is exactly the problem.  While the offer is appreciated, having a relatively short video properly labeled with meta data for knowing what it contains is much better than having to organize a session every time someone new joins the forum.  And maybe having an official youtube channel that new players can go to instead of someone randomly posting videos all over the forum that might contain some information. 

 

btw, I have watched the starter pack videos multiple times over the last seven years.  None of them really do much for explaining in any detail how logic works.  Plus, the action and narrative is so fast as to force one to go back over it multiple times just to see what is being clicked on.  And to top it off, those videos are over 10 years old.   The Toyguy's videos are a little better.  They at least talk about the logic and go slow enough to see what is being clicked on.  But again, fairly old and the logic information is scattered in 2-3 minute pieces across 6-7 different 20 minute vdeos.

 

 The forum regular response to anyone asking for better tutorial information is either jump on a chat with them or a link to the Starter Pack/Wiki.  I am going to point out again that some of that information is over 10 years out of date.  I know the next response will be to fix it myself if its so bad.  Frankly, I don't do this for a living.  I have been self-taught most of the scenario building in SB because there is limited information on how to do it, outside a of a 10 year old 30 minute video posted somewhere not obvious where I have to actually slow the reply down to see what I need to do.  There is no place I can find to go see a simple video on how all the components of logic work.

 

I deal with it the best way I can.  But when the dev is kind and thoughtful enough to ask my opinion on how better to build out some tools for the new players, I didn't really expect to get the usual forum response of jump on a chat or just look at these old videos.  I think more people than you think check the starter stuff out.  But its not very helpful beyond some of the basics.  And most of the starter pack is spent promoting multiplayer.  I have spent a lot of time I could be using to play instead searching the wiki, youtube, manuals, and this forum looking for answers or at least some clue on some of the more esoteric features of the game.  I don't typically bother asking on the forum because I know the two answers I will likely get.

 

So instead of a dev-sponsored discussion about where educational resources might be lacking, its the same old, same old.

[Gibsonm]

OK, well since the offer of assistance isn't needed or just the "same old thing" - I'll withdraw it.

 

I was just trying to offer a focused session where your questions could be addressed, but by all means I'll grab back some of my free time, since "I don't do this for a living" either.

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Gibsonm

[thewood]

Its forum regulars that continue to hold the game back the equivalent of 10 years.  The continued response to just jump into MP sessions or set up chats when new players ask questions can be off putting and intimidating to new players.  It gives the impression to outsiders that this forum in particular is the stomping grounds for players that toe the line on never truly trying to change the game.  Forum members are always willing to offer help, but on those terms.  Let's not try anything new.  Lets not let others ways of playing flourish.  Lets keep the same dozen or so players dominate the conversation.

 

If that's how esims sees the progression of the game and very limited community who play, so be it.  But the devs asked.  I initially didn't plan on giving an opinion because i knew I'd see the typical "Hey, we offered to help and you didn't want it".  But stupid me thinking that maybe this was an actual opportunity to get some input considered.  I mean, why would anyone ever want resources newer than 10 years from SB version 3.10.  2007 was such a good year, why would new players ever need anything better than that.

 

But as usual, the echo chamber resonates with the "Hey, but I offered to help" response.  I don't see the point in the devs starting a thread like this when most of the replies will get the, "But didn't you even look at the wiki?" response.   SB is a relatively complex game/simulation and requires work by the player to go beyond blowing things up.   But the devs asking what new players might find useful sure is a great sign that maybe they are actually trying to break out of SB being a NATO-based tank shooter.  But using this forum to do that will get them nowhere.

Edited March 28, 2020 by thewood

[Grenny]

37 minutes ago, thewood said:

Its forum regulars that continue to hold the game back the equivalent of 10 years.  The continued response to just jump into MP sessions or set up chats when new players ask questions can be off putting and intimidating to new players.  It gives the impression to outsiders that this forum in particular is the stomping grounds for players that toe the line on never truly trying to change the game.  Forum members are always willing to offer help, but on those terms.  Let's not try anything new.  Lets not let others ways of playing flourish.  Lets keep the same dozen or so players dominate the conversation.

 

If that's how esims sees the progression of the game and very limited community who play, so be it.  But the devs asked.  I initially didn't plan on giving an opinion because i knew I'd see the typical "Hey, we offered to help and you didn't want it".  But stupid me thinking that maybe this was an actual opportunity to get some input considered.  I mean, why would anyone ever want resources newer than 10 years from SB version 3.10.  2007 was such a good year, why would new players ever need anything better than that.

 

But as usual, the echo chamber resonates with the "Hey, but I offered to help" response.  I don't see the point in the devs starting a thread like this when most of the replies will get the, "But didn't you even look at the wiki?" response.   SB is a relatively complex game/simulation and requires work by the player to go beyond blowing things up.   But the devs asking what new players might find useful sure is a great sign that maybe they are actually trying to break out of SB being a NATO-based tank shooter.  But using this forum to do that will get them nowhere.

So what great Ideas do you have...am all ears.

 

[Gibsonm]

1 hour ago, thewood said:

But as usual, the echo chamber resonates with the "Hey, but I offered to help" response.

So now I'm an echo chamber?!

 

Welcome to my personal blocked list.

[Lt DeFault]

7 hours ago, thewood said:

The continued response to just jump into MP sessions or set up chats when new players ask questions can be off putting and intimidating to new players.

 

Quote

SB is a relatively complex game/simulation and requires work by the player to go beyond blowing things up.

 

TL;DR: Armored warfare and [the simulation of] warfare in general (read: Steel Beasts) is an extremely complicated subject which simply cannot be completely covered in a few tutorial videos. Although - your input on which topics would provide insight into what is most helpful is what is being asked for here and is what would be appreciated. (As I understand it.)

 

Now ... to address your previous statements quoted above: That's just it: SB is complex [and a very powerful sim because of that]. So, the quickest way [IMHO] to learn how to do exactly what you want to do is to have an interactive session with someone who is already familiar with the sim. Don't get me wrong: video tutorials (and tutorials in general) are great and will give you a basic understanding of how different aspects of the sim work - and you can build on that to accomplish your goals. But, that will usually take more time and effort than actually talking (as opposed to typing) with someone who can simply tell you how to do it. And by that, I don't just mean time and effort by the new player. The time and effort it would take to make tutorials of every possible aspect of scenario design to planning and executing a mission in SB would be monumental. I suspect that is why Ssnake is asking which topics are most important to you.

 

Having said that, I personally find that understanding the basics and working [very] hard to figure out how to accomplish the specific task I want gives me an even better understanding of the capabilities of the sim. I have spent many, many hours ... even days or months figuring out how to make a scenario or plan work just the way I want. But for me, that is part of the enjoyment of this sim. (I suppose I'm a bit of a masochist in that regard - but then again, that's what draws me to many of my interests.) If I ran into a specific roadblock, I asked a detailed, specific question in these forums and always got a helpful response. But asking about somewhat broad topics (such as logic) will usually result in [about] three options for the more experienced respondents:

1. Detailing all of the permutations of capabilities of a feature in some type of tutorial. (Literally impossible.)
2. Asking for clarification about what, exactly, it is that the questioner wants to accomplish. Which leads to answers, which leads to more questions, which leads to a lot of typing, frustration and perhaps even a spoiler of what would have otherwise been a very challenging and enjoyable scenario. Or ...
3. Having a chat or MP session including the questioner and respondent in which dynamic situations can be addressed in a much shorter and vastly more efficient time frame to achieve the desired results without involving uninterested/unwanted parties.*

* The obvious downside to this option is that other interested parties do not benefit from the knowledge imparted. But I believe this is outweighed by the benefits of such a method.

 

As for the idea that the third option "can be off putting and intimidating to new players", well ... I honestly [and perhaps naïvely] don't understand how this could be the case. As far as I can tell, every effort has been made on this forum to make new users aware that no judgement will be passed by any user, developer and/or virtual unit on said new user's lack of understanding and/or skill in any given area. And every effort will be made to accommodate "noobs" who are willing to take the time and put in the effort required to learn how to be proficient with this sim. And that has been my exact experience here.

 

There are many, many people here who are willing to help you get the most out of this sim, if you just agree to trust that they know the best way to help you.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Lt DeFault

[Ssnake]

Well, forum posts are a flat medium, they don't convey the full depth of a face to face conversation where you can also read facial expression etc., so misunderstandings are bound to happen and can lead to frustration. The complexity of Steel Beasts as a simulation tool doesn't exactly help to make things an easy experience for new players, and old players may appear as averse to change because in many cases they know what the simulation is trying to accomplish with some of the design decisions that may baffle someone who is new to this. Just think of the long threads we had about how the M1A1 commander's HMG can be moved in azimuth by mouse, but not in elevation, why??!?!

 

Clearly, the expectation that a string of tutorial videos can explain combined arms combat tactics is futile, and in fact it goes against the grain of SB Pro that the user is supposed to discover what works and what doesn't because SB Pro is about explorative learning. But that doesn't mean we can't give a pointer here and there. The purpose of this thread is to collect ideas and guide us to a more efficient curriculum of tutorial videos rather than creating an endless omnibus of everything where hundreds of videos cover aspects you aren't really looking for. Rather, we should start with what most new players have trouble with - ideally embedded in a slightly bigger context rather than a disjunct collection of knowledge tidbits.

[Hedgehog]

I'd have made tutorials myself a long time ago, but my pc is waaaaaaay to shit to do anything worth while with.

(Any video capture I'd do would basically be fuckin' slide shows.)

[hoggydog]

1 hour ago, Hedgehog said:

I'd have made tutorials myself a long time ago, but my pc is waaaaaaay to shit to do anything worth while with.

(Any video capture I'd do would basically be fuckin' slide shows.)

Don't forget just how clueless you are about SB too Hedge  

[Colebrook]

Going back to the original question...

For me I would like a video about the newest RWS, explaining in detail all the menus and submenus options.

For new players i think a video about how doing things in mp would be a good idea, explaining things like how the callsings works, 

which units do you control and which your teammate(or AI), how to give units to someone etc.

And yes, i caracterice myself as an experienced player, at least with the old vehicles.

 

[Bond_Villian]

9 hours ago, Colebrook said:

For new players i think a video about how doing things in mp would be a good idea, explaining things like how the callsings works, 

which units do you control and which your teammate(or AI), how to give units to someone etc.

Some of this kind of stuff can be gleaned from watching the various TGIF video AAR's.

I watched a shitload of Rotar's videos before buying SB, and i think it helped me to have some idea of basics like giving routes and waypoints from the map, dividing and regrouping platoons etc.

Having said that, i think the best way to learn about MP is to get into the sessions and play.

[Colebrook]

I don't think too much new players watch TGIF videos, if you look the visits they are very low compared with other SB videos, anyway i have seen  a lot of new players having problems understanding which units control,maybe is because they always put the new guys in my platoon🤣

[Nike-Ajax]

It would be very nice with tutorials for the new vehicles, so the DF30 and DF90

[CalAB]

On 3/27/2020 at 2:28 AM, Ssnake said:

Suppose eSim would start making tutorial videos, which topic would you be most interested in learning more about?

What is that one Steel Beasts thing that you could never figure out?

Also, please tell: Do you characterize yourself as an experienced Steel Beasts player, or new to it?

I would like video tutorials on Artillery, Forward Observation and Close Air Support.

Experienced player but not an experienced Tanker, never served.

[Bond_Villian]

For what its worth i think any videos covering the basics of the scenario and map editors would be nice. And some more to cover the not-so-basics (like how to create elevated roads and railways for example).

[Bond_Villian]

14 hours ago, Colebrook said:

I don't think too much new players watch TGIF videos, if you look the visits they are very low compared with other SB videos

Maybe, i dont know about that. The videos i put up get between about 200 to over 1000 views, while we barely see a couple of new players each month...what are the odds?

The videos exist anyway, so they may be useful

[CalAB]

Engineer Ops would also be a welcome inclusion in video format.  Gibsonm has written docs on a whole host of subjects but if these were somehow translated into video they would be worth their weight in weapons grade plutonium.