Ammo Question: 20mm DM31A1, DM41A1, DM51A1, DM81/DM101

[Maj.Hans]

I just did a sort of double take in the mission editor, since the Marder seems to have a wide array of new 20mm HE ammo choices.  However, it seems like they're essentially identical at this point.

 

Are there any performance differences in game at this point?

I noticed that the usual DM81/DM101 that we've always had basically needs a direct hit to kill troops, so I wonder do the others have different fragmentation patterns?

[Ssnake]

I added them because I got my hands on the necessary data sheets, not because they are vastly different.

Their main property differences are:

 

DM31: 10g HE filler, no tracer

DM41: 8g HE filler, with tracer

DM51: 6.5g HE filler, w/ tracer

DM81: 10g HE filler again, w/tracer

 

Since the amount of HE filler varies between "very little" and "even less so" the performance differences are probably rather subtle. I could imagine that the technical history was like this:

In the 1950s, "We have this small caliber, let's put as much HE into it as we can, tracer be damned!"

In the 1960s "Come on, let's compromise here and sacrifice just two grams of RDX for a tracer element!"

In the 1970s, "Dammit, the fuzes need to be more reliable. What good are 8g of HE if they end up as duds?" (something that we don't simulate)

In the 1980s, "Whee, we made progress with fuze construction, and we decided to have both tracer and no tracer rounds in mixed belts!"

 

However, I'm speculating here.

 

[Grenny]

3 hours ago, Ssnake said:

I added them because I got my hands on the necessary data sheets, not because they are vastly different.

Their main property differences are:

 

DM31: 10g HE filler, no tracer

DM41: 8g HE filler, with tracer

DM51: 6.5g HE filler, w/ tracer

DM81: 10g HE filler again, w/tracer

 

Since the amount of HE filler varies between "very little" and "even less so" the performance differences are probably rather subtle. I could imagine that the technical history was like this:

In the 1950s, "We have this small caliber, let's put as much HE into it as we can, tracer be damned!"

In the 1960s "Come on, let's compromise here and sacrifice just two grams of RDX for a tracer element!"

In the 1970s, "Dammit, the fuzes need to be more reliable. What good are 8g of HE if they end up as duds?" (something that we don't simulate)

In the 1980s, "Whee, we made progress with fuze construction, and we decided to have both tracer and no tracer rounds in mixed belts!"

 

However, I'm speculating here.

 

Also you need to consider:

DM 101 has a has a zircon-powder tab added to create an incendinary effect.

also DM81 has a tip fuse, 101 has the fuse on the base...causing different frag patterns...

Edited April 3, 2020 by Grenny

[Maj.Hans]

Interesting.  I'll have to try them out to see if there's any noticeable difference other than the  tracers.

 

I think perhaps the current simulation of the frag patterns is a little bit lackluster.  Currently it seems that troops in terrain have to be pretty much directly hit by the rounds to have any effect.  I understand and agree that 20mm just can't have much of a "bang" to it, but I wonder if the real thing is a bit more peppy.

[Grenny]

2 minutes ago, Maj.Hans said:

Interesting.  I'll have to try them out to see if there's any noticeable difference other than the  tracers.

 

I think perhaps the current simulation of the frag patterns is a little bit lackluster.  Currently it seems that troops in terrain have to be pretty much directly hit by the rounds to have any effect.  I understand and agree that 20mm just can't have much of a "bang" to it, but I wonder if the real thing is a bit more peppy.

cavehat: don't know how far the mixed belts and ammo effects are modelled in SB!

[Ssnake]

They aren't.