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Gunnery Targets


MasterGunner309

Who wants gunnery targets?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wants gunnery targets?

    • yes
      7
    • no
      5
    • go back to your corner Sir and drink coffee while we run this tower!
      2


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Has the question been posed to put gunnery target assets into the simulation? Right now as I've seen so far, you can put in the actual vehicle model. Does the upgrade roadmap include gunnery range targets? I have the dimensions. Having hard targets on lifters and E type troop targets that I could raise with a trigger would be epic for virtual units to conduct a standard gunnery. If you need any type of information i.e dimensions, types, lifters, movers, target arrays, etc. I would love to help out with any type of project like that.

 

Here is the manual (unclassified) I found with an internet search. Would only need a handful of targets and let the community do the rest. Put these virtual Master Gunners back to work developing ranges.

 

 

TC-25-8-Training-Ranges.pdf

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You can build an entire Gunnery Table VI with the assets at hand. With some careful designing and map selection, units can drive over a berm, exposing them to identification and fire. 

 

Not included is the experience of slamming Rip Its for 24 hours while angrily pulling vehicles off the beach for not being ready to shoot. 

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3 hours ago, MasterGunner309 said:

sad face

 

No need for a sad face ;-)...why shoot at a card-board piece with a pointy top, when you can blast away at a good looking BRDM-2AT  model?

 

At ranges I prefered shooting at the "hard targets"(tank/IFV hulks on the range)....I always regretted that you can't get those as movers

 

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Adding target panels to a virtual simulation only combines the disadvantages of live fire (you can't afford to have the actual vehicles of your potential adversaries driving live and tactically in front of your guns) with the disadvantages of virtual gunfire (the lack of physicality and sens-o-rama). Steel Beasts, like all other forms of training should - simulates certain aspects of combat, not the "daily lives of tank soldiers" including a grand day at the range. We don't simulate track maintenance, non-combat related component failures, degreasing moving parts (and then greasing them again), and other highlights of a tanker's life.

In combat the enemy (except maybe the comically and morbidly inept) doesn't ride in or behind target panels. They use all kinds of combat vehicles at their disposal. Using these "actual" virtual vehicles in your scenarios using actual tactical movement, possibly even shooting at you (with impotent guns) gives generally much better results. If you want to keep it nice and easy, make them blind. But you know that you can take corners right on a bike only after the training wheels come off. Blind tanks that drive in straight lines and park fully exposed are the equivalent to training wheels. Virtual target panels are training wheels for training wheels.

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2 minutes ago, Grenny said:

In fact, that would be the kind of enemy I'd prefer IRL!!

🤗

 

One can dream of encountering a stupid enemy. Unfortunately, this rarely seems to happen, and generally makes history when it does. 

Edited by Mirzayev
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1 minute ago, Froggy said:

Lol.

Our ennemies carry AK and RPG, but rely more on sorcery to guide bullets than actual aiming to shoot at us... luckily we lost few people from fire exchange, most were (are) from IED.

Still, I'd prefer OPFOR to carry dry gras instead of an AK 😉 ...makes the job much less stressful

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42 minutes ago, MasterGunner309 said:

Thank you everyone for the constructive responses. I def see everyone's point about the value of having a "real" vehicle modeled in your gunnery tables. 

 

How long do you have the game?

What have you tried out already?

Did you like it so far? 🙂

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I played SB years ago and just now coming back. I currently have a 30 day timed license but will purchase the full license at the end of it. The updates and additional content is really impressive since I last played. I was a Bradley guy for 21 years so I have mech in my blood. I'm looking forward to joining in on some multiplayer sessions as well. I'm currently going through the tutorials and having a blast.

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6 minutes ago, MasterGunner309 said:

I played SB years ago and just now coming back. I currently have a 30 day timed license but will purchase the full license at the end of it. The updates and additional content is really impressive since I last played. I was a Bradley guy for 21 years so I have mech in my blood. I'm looking forward to joining in on some multiplayer sessions as well. I'm currently going through the tutorials and having a blast.

More MechInf players are always welcome!!

Maybe one day we can even play a scenario with a reeforced MechInf...and not always "only" a tank company with Mech "addon" 😉

 

If you've got the time this sunday. We will be running a game with "steam gunnery". Game time is 1800 GMT

We'll be using M113s for the Mech (check out the new M2 HMG model...with adjustable sights)

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Hi 

in my opinion Range Targets are a good thing. I fully understand Ssnakes point of and have over the years had a few discussions with him on this subject.

Steelbeasts is designed as a training tool, firstly as an Armour centric tactical trainer at BG level and in that role it sits firmly on top of anything else that's out there.

 

It could also be used as a range trainer, ahhh abhorrent, I here some people say. However with nothing out there to do this job apart from multi million pound simulators it would not take too much effort to put SB once again at the top of the pile.

just my thoughts 

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9 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Adding target panels to a virtual simulation only combines the disadvantages of live fire (you can't afford to have the actual vehicles of your potential adversaries driving live and tactically in front of your guns) with the disadvantages of virtual gunfire (the lack of physicality and sens-o-rama). Steel Beasts, like all other forms of training should - simulates certain aspects of combat, not the "daily lives of tank soldiers" including a grand day at the range. We don't simulate track maintenance, non-combat related component failures, degreasing moving parts (and then greasing them again), and other highlights of a tanker's life.

In combat the enemy (except maybe the comically and morbidly inept) doesn't ride in or behind target panels. They use all kinds of combat vehicles at their disposal. Using these "actual" virtual vehicles in your scenarios using actual tactical movement, possibly even shooting at you (with impotent guns) gives generally much better results. If you want to keep it nice and easy, make them blind. But you know that you can take corners right on a bike only after the training wheels come off. Blind tanks that drive in straight lines and park fully exposed are the equivalent to training wheels. Virtual target panels are training wheels for training wheels.

Added random failures would be pretty cool such as Ballistic computer fault or stabilized failure cause a gyro malfunction. Not just taking damages from being hit. Also auto MRS function would be pretty cool saying based off of the rounds EFC being fired. Say if you fired M829A2 rounds x4 then a red message will appear in the upper right hand corner “MRS is needed”. So if the player continues to fire he was have loss of accuracy at distances. But if the player backs up the tank and say hits a key function that the MRS would update automatically given the standard time. Then the Tanks accuracy would be improved. It would keep just tanks having a long range shootouts back to back and would force repositioning more. Just my opinion. 

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Here is what my vision would be, perfect world:

 

A virtual unit wants, as part of their training, conduct crew level gunnery twice per year. A range, developed with gunnery targets would be created to a certain standard. Regular gunner engagements, a manual engagement, commander's engagement, offensive, defensive under various conditions and target arrays. A crew would occupy battle position 1 (BP1), and a "tower" operator would tell them to go to the fire net i.e. a different channel on TeamSpeak. They would then change their TS to voice activated to simulate a jump net. Crew evaluators would be on that net as well as in the 3D world in a spotting vehicle off to the side of BP 1. They would evaluate gunnery procedures and the fire commands. They could even score based the crew deducting points for crew penalties such as firing before the command of FIRE. The tower could control the presentation of the tower through triggers. Raise step (trigger) one, a PC and troops would present, the crew would engage, the evaluator would score, and then once the crew radioed their RED CON 1 status, the tower would raise the next step. On the degraded engagements, the crew would have go configure the vehicle for manual mode, or use the GAS sight. It would all be part of the steps. Of course all of this can be done with hard targets, but gunnery is gunnery. You would have limited ammo based on the targets presented. Panel targets is what gunnery is...I don't know it would just be cool I think. Once the crew was complete, they would go back to the admin TS channel and the next crew would be directed by the "tower" to drop to the fire net (TS channel). And so on until the crews were qualified. Gunnery is such an event. Its like the Olympics. Everyone is trying to outshoot the other crews. I just think it would be an amazing event to put together.

 

M1 Abrams Tank Gunnery

Edited by MasterGunner309
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2 hours ago, Assassin 7 said:

Added random failures would be pretty cool such as Ballistic computer fault or stabilized failure cause a gyro malfunction. Not just taking damages from being hit.

Arguably, damage if... meets that demand. (Classroom Instructors also have the platoon status window through which they can induce component failures all the time).

 

Also auto MRS function would be pretty cool saying based off of the rounds EFC being fired. Say if you fired M829A2 rounds x4 then a red message will appear in the upper right hand corner “MRS is needed”. So if the player continues to fire he was have loss of accuracy at distances. But if the player backs up the tank and say hits a key function that the MRS would update automatically given the standard time. Then the Tanks accuracy would be improved. It would keep just tanks having a long range shootouts back to back and would force repositioning more.

This falls into the realm of gunnery training, and is therefore limited as a feature to the classroom/simulator version of SB Pro. In fact, you can set different thermal loads for different types of rounds, and different barrel warp effects depending on the total thermal load, and its cool-down over time. :)

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1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

This falls into the realm of gunnery training, and is therefore limited as a feature to the classroom/simulator version of SB Pro. In fact, you can set different thermal loads for different types of rounds, and different barrel warp effects depending on the total thermal load, and its cool-down over time. :)

That's cool.  Maybe in 30 or 40 years you'll make the Pro version generally available.

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