Tsahi Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Gunners control. salvation? http://www.scip-engineering.com/portfolio/w10-series/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) I suspect AFVsim / @hawes / @Crusty might be interested. But given there isn't even a data sheet available to tell you what they are made from / their likely durability (for something announced in 2018), I suspect I wont by buying. Edited May 7, 2020 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 AFVsim still refuses to sell to non-governmental entities right? I'm interested... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted May 8, 2020 Members Share Posted May 8, 2020 No, they now have at least some export licenses. The price point is of course still considerable, but if you know where to 3D print, they offer cheaper kits for self-print and assembly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Maj.Hans said: AFVsim still refuses to sell to non-governmental entities right? I'm interested... Its not that "they refuse". They aren't allowed to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 13 hours ago, Ssnake said: No, they now have at least some export licenses. The price point is of course still considerable, but if you know where to 3D print, they offer cheaper kits for self-print and assembly. Any idea how much for the cheaper kit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, stormrider_sp said: Any idea how much for the cheaper kit? U-Hid board, some wire and some components if you are going to make the housing yourself!. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 I wonder the price point of the original post. Don't look much cheaper than AFV Sim TBH if they are made out of anything durable 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, DarkAngel said: I wonder the price point of the original post. Don't look much cheaper than AFV Sim TBH if they are made out of anything durable Well I think that's the issue. Page published in 2018 but no Data Sheet and all the expandable items "Key Features", "Applications" and "Standards" are empty - I suspect it didn't proceed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawes Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 On 5/7/2020 at 9:46 PM, Tsahi said: Gunners control. salvation? http://www.scip-engineering.com/portfolio/w10-series/ Has anyone obtained a price from SCIP Engineering? They first came to light on this forum May 24 2016. https://www.steelbeasts.com/topic/4340-sb-pro-pe-workstation/page/3/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 12 hours ago, Gibsonm said: Its not that "they refuse". They aren't allowed to. I realize they're based in the UK, but even there I can't imagine that video game controllers would be a secret classified item? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Maj.Hans said: I realize they're based in the UK, but even there I can't imagine that video game controllers would be a secret classified item? Look up some terms like "ML Controlled", "ITAR" and "FMS". There's an EU one too, but its name escapes me. It doesn't have to be "secret" to have its sales controlled / curtailed. ITARs / USML covers for example: Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns Guns and Armament Ammunition/Ordnance Launch Vehicles, Guided Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, Rockets, Torpedoes, Bombs and Mines Explosives and Energetic Materials, Propellants, Incendiary Agents and Their Constituents Surface Vessels of War and Special Naval Equipment Ground Vehicles Aircraft and Related Articles Military Training Equipment and Training Personal Protective Equipment Military Electronics Fire Control, Laser, Imaging and Guidance Equipment Materials and Miscellaneous Articles Toxicological Agents, Including Chemical Agents, Biological Agents and Associated Equipment Spacecraft and Related Articles Nuclear Weapons Related Articles Classified Articles, Technical Data and Defense Services Not Otherwise Enumerated Directed Energy Weapons Gas Turbine Engines and Associated Equipment Submersible Vessels and Related Articles Articles, Technical Data and Defense Services Not Otherwise Enumerated I'm pretty sure the UK's "ML Controlled" list is pretty close to this too. They will likely have a set list of countries that they are allowed to sell to and within those countries certain groups / organisations) Edited May 9, 2020 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawes Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 From the UK Military List: 'ML14 - Specialised equipment for military training or for simulating military scenarios, simulators specially designed for training in the "use" of any firearm or weapon specified in ML1 or ML2, and specially designed components and accessories therefor.' The control handles are not secret classified items, just controlled export items. AFV Sim are registered to export under; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology: Government or NATO end use. and; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology. The second licence permits us to export to any end user in a list of destinations - Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, USA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, hawes said: From the UK Military List: 'ML14 - Specialised equipment for military training or for simulating military scenarios, simulators specially designed for training in the "use" of any firearm or weapon specified in ML1 or ML2, and specially designed components and accessories therefor.' The control handles are not secret classified items, just controlled export items. AFV Sim are registered to export under; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology: Government or NATO end use. and; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology. The second licence permits us to export to any end user in a list of destinations - Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, USA. Oh man I used to live in the UK, if I knew I would have pushed beyond those usual 80+ work hours per week so I could save some extra pennies . Edited May 9, 2020 by stormrider_sp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 9 hours ago, hawes said: From the UK Military List: 'ML14 - Specialised equipment for military training or for simulating military scenarios, simulators specially designed for training in the "use" of any firearm or weapon specified in ML1 or ML2, and specially designed components and accessories therefor.' The control handles are not secret classified items, just controlled export items. AFV Sim are registered to export under; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology: Government or NATO end use. and; Open General Export Licence - Military Goods, Software and Technology. The second licence permits us to export to any end user in a list of destinations - Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, USA. That's great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 I guess I should have expected that some beaurocratic law would prevent video game controllers from being sold without jumping through hoops. After all, ITAR says that these 30 round rifle magazines cannot be exported! Except for the one on the right. They took the gripping ridges off so now its okay to export globally. So if your second license allows you to export to any end user in those countries, do you sell to anyone who wants and can afford one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirzayev Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, Maj.Hans said: I guess I should have expected that some beaurocratic law would prevent video game controllers from being sold without jumping through hoops. After all, ITAR says that these 30 round rifle magazines cannot be exported! Except for the one on the right. They took the gripping ridges off so now its okay to export globally. I don't see an issue with ITAR. It helps prevent things like this from occurring: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormrider_sp Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 How about this one, anyone heard of it before? http://www.daco.co.uk/custom-built-controllers/10-custom-built-controllers/24-custom-built-controllers-2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawes Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Maj.Hans said: So if your second license allows you to export to any end user in those countries, do you sell to anyone who wants and can afford one? We do. They also have to complete an End User Undertaking (EUU) 17-mil-goods-ogel-consignee-undertaking-template.odt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawes Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, stormrider_sp said: How about this one, anyone heard of it before? http://www.daco.co.uk/custom-built-controllers/10-custom-built-controllers/24-custom-built-controllers-2 DACO. High quality original equipment manufacturer. Edited May 10, 2020 by hawes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Mirzayev said: I don't see an issue with ITAR. It helps prevent things like this from occurring: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation Well, ITAR creates lots of problems for us. For example integrating an ITAR item into an other systems, allows US authorities to get access to blueprints and source codes for the whole system.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawes Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Grenny said: Well, ITAR creates lots of problems for us. For example integrating an ITAR item into an other systems, allows US authorities to get access to blueprints and source codes for the whole system.... ITAR can even cover basic parts, such as nuts and bolts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 hours ago, hawes said: ITAR can even cover basic parts, such as nuts and bolts. ITAR can make a soup spoon illegal. Its probably done it before. I've heard of it preventing the US from importing US made firearms that were previously given out as military aid. WW2 era stuff. I think it also prevented the export of some WW1 era British made Enfield rifles back to the UK or possibly to Australia from a seller in the US. At that point they were 100+ year old bolt actions more useful as a wall decoration than weapon of war... I appreciate what it was intended to prevent, however it has gotten out of control at this point and possibly filled with too many loopholes to be actually effective. It blocks access to completely inane items, and at the same time, a company that wants to export weapons parts can do what MagPul did with the STANAG 30 round 556 magazines... The P-Mag and E-Mag are functionally identical, but one is blocked for export and the other not because of some cosmetic changes? Going back to the controllers, what's the cost like for just a gunner control handle? I have some very good joysticks that work just fine for a TC controller, but they're kinda...well...Super Lame for gunnery, especially moving targets. In not necessarily stuck on the idea of a direct copy of the real deal, I just want something with batter control over the inputs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirzayev Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Maj.Hans said: The P-Mag and E-Mag are functionally identical, but one is blocked for export and the other not because of some cosmetic changes? Except this isn't true. The EMag is also subject to ITAR, and can only be exported with a valid export permit from the State Department. Despite no longer being in production, here are some sources: https://soldiersystems.net/2009/09/02/the-emag/ https://ustacticalsupply.com/emag30maglevel556x45magazine.aspx The EMag, or Export Mag, refers to it being designed for use with "foreign" guns, such as the SA-80, HK-416, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj.Hans Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Mirzayev said: Except this isn't true. The EMag is also subject to ITAR, and can only be exported with a valid export permit from the State Department. Despite no longer being in production, here are some sources: https://soldiersystems.net/2009/09/02/the-emag/ https://ustacticalsupply.com/emag30maglevel556x45magazine.aspx The EMag, or Export Mag, refers to it being designed for use with "foreign" guns, such as the SA-80, HK-416, etc. That's interesting, but I know for sure that the place I used to get them from did *NOT* have an ITAR restriction statement for the EMag lol. And ironically despite being designed for "foreign" guns, my only real use for them has been US made stuff with tight magazine wells, and conversion into HK33 mags. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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