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Assassin 7

Can Abrams damage model be checked

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So started doing some testing with the SEP by shooting it. I used a T-72B1 m 1985 using BM-46. I noticed that when the SEP is hit in the engine compartment every 4 to 5 hits are destroying it. I also noticed that its causing Turret Drive and stabilization damage when being hit in the engine compartment. Just interested in why this was decided. I started a multiplayer session and connected to myself for testing

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As regards destruction, I'm pretty sure "Cojone Eh" may be something to look at.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, TankHunter said:

As regards destruction, I'm pretty sure "Cojone Eh" may be something to look at.

i understand the Abrams being destroyed, off of several shots to the engine compartment would cause a Fire(after fire bottle discharges ) which would take a few minutes to destroy it . But not immediately destroyed after being hit several time in the engine compartment. Also would not cause Turret damage ( Turret Drive and Stabilization Damage from being hit in the Hull Engine compartment ) which is being seen. PS I do like the @avangelinmarie picture at the bottom of the cojone Eh pictures

Edited by Assassin 7

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As regards the engine fire, from my understanding SB doesn't have a way to simulate progressive vehicle fires, if an M1 gets hit in the engine, there is a good chance of there being a fuel leak in the engine compartment that would feed a fire that cannot be put out as had happened with "Cojone Eh." This is due to components on the turbine engine being hot enough to cause fuel splashing on them to ignite. Due to this if an engine fire is the outcome of a hit, the vehicle is destroyed. Not a perfect solution but it works.

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Its a feature. Turbine engines have a low chance of a fire (1% base chance). Of course the actual probability of the fire then depends on the power/magnitude of the penetration though. The bigger/more violent the penetration the higher the chance.

 

Yes, we don't model a localized fire, but the fact is, when a turbine engine catches on fire, then the vehicle is out of action.  It is certainly a disadvantage of the turbine engine over a non-turbine engine.

 

This is true for all M1s, and the T-80, and it has been like this for at least 10 to 15 years now (certainly nothing has changed there).  Of course it could certainly be improved with a system where a fire starts in an actual component, which damages that component (engine) and then has a probability of spreading to destroy the vehicle (where it would be abandoned), but that is not what we have.

 

Regarding the hydraulic damage, it is certainly true that the tank has an auxiliary hydraulic pump, but the primary purpose of this is to provide hydraulic power when the engine is turned off, not when the engine has been destroyed. In a situation where the engine has been destroyed, the hydraulic fluid flows to the engine where the engine becomes the primary source of hydraulic power. With the engine destroyed this can mean a loss of hydraulic fluid. There is a percentage chance that hydraulics will be lost when the engine is damaged to simulate this.  Again, this is nothing new either.

 

The representation isn't perfect, but it is what we have until we can improve the damage model.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TankHunter said:

As regards the engine fire, from my understanding SB doesn't have a way to simulate progressive vehicle fires, if an M1 gets hit in the engine, there is a good chance of there being a fuel leak in the engine compartment that would feed a fire that cannot be put out as had happened with "Cojone Eh." This is due to components on the turbine engine being hot enough to cause fuel splashing on them to ignite. Due to this if an engine fire is the outcome of a hit, the vehicle is destroyed. Not a perfect solution but it works.

Ok makes sense about it being destroyed after many shots. but until your destroyed,  you would still be able traverse due to the auxiliary hydraulic pump taking over which is located in the subturret seperated from the engine compartment. You also would still have vehicles power until the fire got into the battery box or torched one of the main power harnesses

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As I said, the hydraulic lines go to the engine, where the engine provides the primary source of pressure for the hydraulic fluid. With the engine destroyed, it is a reasonable assumption that the hydraulic fluid would be leaking. As far as I can remember, the aux hydraulic pump is designed to provide hydraulic power to the turret when the engine is off, not when the engine is destroyed (this may or may not be possible due to a hydraulic leak, from a catastrophic event like the engine being destroyed).

 

In any case, the its a % chance of damage applied to the engine to represent this possibility.

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Are you saying that hydraulic lines, which have hydraulic fluid (FRH) in them, do not go to the engine compartment, where the psi of the hydraulic fluid is increased while the engine is running?

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And as for the Heat Exchanger in the rear, there is a bypass valve in the Hull Distribution Valve that will block it from entering into the engine compartment sending it back to the reservior

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That is not an answer to the question.

 

Are you saying that there aren't hoses carrying hydraulic fluid into the engine compartment?

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1 minute ago, Volcano said:

Are you saying that hydraulic lines, which have hydraulic fluid (FRH) in them, do not go to the engine compartment, where the psi of the hydraulic fluid is increased while the engine is running?

What i am saying is that there are 2 main Hydraulic lines one goes to the pump and the other is the return line. These are fed off of pressure which valves open after being pressurized from the Main Hydraulic Pump. If there isnt enough pressure the fluid flow will divert to the Auxiliary pump and the Main valves will close

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Posted (edited)

The Abrams can run without a Main Hydraulic pump. just of course with less pressure

Edited by Assassin 7

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Yes, I am aware that the Abrams can run without a main hydraulic pump, you aren't the only one with Abrams experience.  😉


What we don't have is a depot level TM (nor do we need it, as this level of detail is generally beyond what we want to model). But anyway, explaining the issue is much better than just pasting a paragraph for the depot level TM and expecting someone to figure it out (there isn't time to sift through such text, seeing as we can't chase every thread). So thanks for the explanation.

 

However, back to the issue...

 

OK, yes, it leads back to the the original point: the hydraulic damage is simulating that the hydraulic fluid flows to the engine, and a catastrophic event could break the linkage before it reaches the pressure valve (unless the pressure valve is inside the crew compartment?).  This is a probability of damage, to represent an abnormal situation. What should the probability be? (rhetorical question) We don't know, but it is reasonable to assume that hydraulic lines CAN be damaged when the engine is destroyed, as can the pressure valves, as can the lines leading up to the pressure valves.  Perhaps the probably could be much lower, given the details, at which point we start to split hairs.

 

At some point we might reconsider the hydraulic loss probability and lower it, but that is simply not a priority right now, and the actual damage types that occur is valid, in so far as the way we originally designed it. Not saying there isn't room for improvement, but if its more of an issue of the percentages being too high (subjective) then its a matter for a later date, when things are reevaluated in the damage model.

 

 

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Well, I was asking: where are the pressure values located? I thought they were located in the engine compartment.  If this is not the case then let me know (going off old memory here).

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The couplings are at the Main Pump Connections and the Valves are at the entering of the Reservoir.  The EDV is in the Main Hydraulic Pump so If damaged the couplings close back due to low pressure. Given you will loose some hydraulic fluid but not alot.

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OK, the hydraulic reservoir is in the crew compartment (I certainly recall that), therefore, going by the depot level TM, the valves are also in the crew compartment? This is what I am trying to find out. 😉

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1 minute ago, Volcano said:

OK, the hydraulic reservoir is in the crew compartment (I certainly recall that), therefore, going by the depot level TM, the values are also in the crew compartment? This is what I am trying to find out. 😉

Yes the Hydraulic Reservoir is in the crew compartment and the one way flow valves is at the Reservoir's Main flow lines connections

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Ah, OK. In that case, yes, we can assume it shouldn't have hydraulic damage on the engine, and only such damage would be on the reservoir (hydraulic damage % is already present there).

 

At some point we will look into that when there is time (not exactly an emergency though).  Besides that, the fire damage is correct/valid within the limitations of the damage model.

 

 

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