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Damian90

Challenger 2 Mk2 (Challenger 2 LEP) with Rheinmetall Rh130/L51 130mm smoothbore gun.

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So it seems a new turret developed by Rheinmetall for Challenger 2 Mk2 (LEP) program is highly modular design. It can accept addon armor, a new 130mm smoothbore gun Rh130/L51 and an autoloader.

So new turret exists, so we can assume that this might be a turret offered by Rheinmetall as upgrade proposal for various MBT's, like Leopard 2.

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1 hour ago, Damian90 said:

So new turret exists, so we can assume that this might be a turret offered by Rheinmetall as upgrade proposal for various MBT's, like Leopard 2.

 

Not unless the turret ring is the same diameter and a bunch of other factors.

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Hmmm, although I would love CR2 to get this level of upgrade, I'm not holding my breath.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Not unless the turret ring is the same diameter and a bunch of other factors.

AFAIK all 3rd generation MBT's have the same turret ring diameter. However other factors as you said may come in to play, like hull and turret geometry. This is why Leopard 2 and Leclerc hybrid needed turret adaptor, because Leopard 2 hull roof is going upwards, and could thus interfere with Leclerc turret rotation capability as the turret is not designed for such hull geometry.

 

Quote

Hmmm, although I would love CR2 to get this level of upgrade, I'm not holding my breath.

 

We only know at the moment that current British Army requirement that is a must is a 120mm smoothbore gun for Challenger 2 Mk2 (LEP). So Rheinmetall turret is already taken as a basis for tank upgrade. Will UK MoD take 130mm gun is a different story.

Edited by Damian90

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On 8/1/2020 at 10:48 AM, Damian90 said:

AFAIK all 3rd generation MBT's have the same turret ring diameter. However other factors as you said may come in to play, like hull and turret geometry. This is why Leopard 2 and Leclerc hybrid needed turret adaptor, because Leopard 2 hull roof is going upwards, and could thus interfere with Leclerc turret rotation capability as the turret is not designed for such hull geometry.

 

 

We only know at the moment that current British Army requirement that is a must is a 120mm smoothbore gun for Challenger 2 Mk2 (LEP). So Rheinmetall turret is already taken as a basis for tank upgrade. Will UK MoD take 130mm gun is a different story.

 

Anything is possible. like always is comes down to the money. I assume moving to a 130mm with autoloader will add significant costs, not just in buying the equipment but across all defence lines of development. How much would it cost for a formal change request? How long will it take to get it written into the requirements? Support, training, personnel support (what will we do with all the redundant loaders if they are no longer required?) SOP for hides/maintenance, career profiles ect to name a few. I would love to see us ahead of the game but there is a lot of people that need to say yes and give them the money. Upgrading the engine and suspension as part of LEP is not cheap either. There's also a reason a strict time limit on the  FOC is in the contract. Any delays are not acceptable.

 

Anyone saying we should have bought Leopard 2 or Abrams would have been cheaper, its not. All of the studies and cost analysis was all done and rejected.

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Plus I suspect Defence Budgets across the planet are going to be constrained as Govt spending pivots to things like Health and economic recovery during / post COVID.

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And more importantly what about the ammo supply.

The CR-2 biggest weakness was its120mm rifled barreled gun,

The gun its self was good but the rifled ammo did not keep up with its contemporaries

compared to the 120mm smoothbore ammo

With multiple nations developing ammo for the gun. 

IMO the MOD wont risk it with a new 130mm unless there is  a guarantee other major militaries will adopt it

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1 hour ago, Marko said:

And more importantly what about the ammo supply.

The CR-2 biggest weakness was its120mm rifled barreled gun,

The gun its self was good but the rifled ammo did not keep up with its contemporaries

compared to the 120mm smoothbore ammo

With multiple nations developing ammo for the gun. 

IMO the MOD wont risk it with a new 130mm unless there is  a guarantee other major militaries will adopt it

Agree about the 130mm ammo.

 

BAE conducted a study on improved L30 ammunition and came up with several new variants. The figures I saw for the "premier" version were pretty impressive. How much it would have cost? Probably astronomical.

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