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The Iranian Expat owner of a local copy shop, as it turned out, was a BMP driver in the first Gulf War (you remember, the one between Iraq and Iran where Saddam Hussein was still an American ally). He wasn't exactly happy about that job, but glad to have made it alive.

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On 11/9/2020 at 8:13 AM, Ssnake said:

The Iranian Expat owner of a local copy shop, as it turned out, was a BMP driver in the first Gulf War (you remember, the one between Iraq and Iran where Saddam Hussein was still an American ally). He wasn't exactly happy about that job, but glad to have made it alive.

At least he had his own hatch.

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The BMP may have many flaws thin armour the main gun of the first veriant etc

But  it should also be noted it was the first true IFV at the time of its introduction most Nato forces were using equally as thin armoured M113s

I remember reading an IDF report on the BMP -1  a few were captured by them.

If memory serves me correctly the crux of there report stated it is reliable and has very good mobility.

I would of course regard the marder IFV introduced shortly after the BMP  as far superior  in all areas

But compare numbers produced and unit cost.

IMO it was not a bad IFV it was designed to speed across the european battlefield offering NBC protection and some cover

From small arms and arty.

And at the time of its introduction would have made for a hard target to hit being low profile and fast and lets not forget it is amphibious capabilities.

 

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  • 1 month later...

What I hate the most about almost every Soviet Union made vehicles is the utter lack of elbow space in them.  During the 1991 Gulf War, my unit captured several BRDMs, BMPs, and T-62 tanks.  I managed to hop into each of the listed vehicles after the fighting stopped.  Damn.  I had more bumps and bruises in those three vehicles than all the times I spent inside an M2A1 Bradley!  I realize that combat vehicles were not made for luxury rides, but sardines never had it so bad when comparing Russian stuff.  Thankfully, all I have to worry about now is gaming compared to real live battle.  Plenty of table room for me to operate Russian equipment. :D 

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When the Soviets designed these vehicles, they had an annual draft of 2...3 million recruits, and consequently selected the shortest 5% as crews for their combat vehicles. In the 1960s the shortest 5% were even shorter than today's population with ever better nutrition during childhood. So, consider these vehicles built for a target audience of 1.60m

All of a sudden they are no longer quite so cramped.

 

Western vehicles with either volunteer armies or much smaller number of recruits were designed for the 95% percentile of the (male) population, people who are about a whole foot/30cm taller than their Soviet counterparts.

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On 11/14/2020 at 12:42 AM, Marko said:

The BMP may have many flaws thin armour the main gun of the first veriant etc

But  it should also be noted it was the first true IFV at the time of its introduction most Nato forces were using equally as thin armoured M113s

I remember reading an IDF report on the BMP -1  a few were captured by them.

If memory serves me correctly the crux of there report stated it is reliable and has very good mobility.

I would of course regard the marder IFV introduced shortly after the BMP  as far superior  in all areas

But compare numbers produced and unit cost.

IMO it was not a bad IFV it was designed to speed across the european battlefield offering NBC protection and some cover

From small arms and arty.

And at the time of its introduction would have made for a hard target to hit being low profile and fast and lets not forget it is amphibious capabilities.

 

Initial marders were death traps as well. only with the uparmour package did they become viable. 

armour protection on the first marders is actually equivalent to that of the BMP-1.

Edited by dejawolf
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9 hours ago, dejawolf said:

Initial marders were death traps as well. only with the uparmour package did they become viable. 

armour protection on the first marders is actually equivalent to that of the BMP-1.

The Marders before the 1A3 had alround 12.7mmx108(sure, not everywhere...) and frontal protection against 20mmx139 AP.

 

I tried 7.62mmx51 (AP) against a BMP-1 at roughly 300m...went right trough the side.

So...the armour protection of the BMP1 is considerably worse then even the pre A3 Marders.

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I had an opportunity to inspect a captured Iraqi BMP-1 on a visit to bovington tank museum.

It is indeed cramped when fully crewed, but it would have presented a very small target especially to a gunner in a 70s early 80s ere tank.

First round hits and high hit percentages were not the norm back then.

try hitting one travelling cross county at speed from the gunners position  of say a centurion (in game)

You will see what the soviet designers envisaged.

Modern tank fire controls systems negated this advantage though.

 

 

Ps

d

Grenny.

 Was the 7.62 round you used, A modern type round

Also do you think a older generation round of the same caliber would have penetrated the side armor of the BMP

 

Edited by Marko
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19 hours ago, Grenny said:

The Marders before the 1A3 had alround 12.7mmx108(sure, not everywhere...) and frontal protection against 20mmx139 AP.

 

I tried 7.62mmx51 (AP) against a BMP-1 at roughly 300m...went right trough the side.

So...the armour protection of the BMP1 is considerably worse then even the pre A3 Marders.

The BMP-1 has 16mm armour protection on the sides in SB, and should be proof against 7.62mm. 

the marder 1 side protection is 15mm @60 degrees on the upper side, and 15mm on the lower side. 

whatever round you're using against the BMP-1 would penetrate the marder as well. 

Edited by dejawolf
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