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Noob giving up soon...


Flak

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Hi folks!

I'm finding it really hard to learn SB Pro and need some help on how

to manage my way through the training missions. I know the answer

probably is to just do them in the correct order, but I've tried to do

that and I still can't manage the sim at all. :frown:

Part of it is definately that I sit here all alone with no one to guide

me through the finer details of the sim, and I'm used to playing/simming

with friends. I refuse to show up on the multiplayer sessions not knowing

the basics...

What's the absolutely easiest vehicle to learn and are there any super easy

missions I can try with?

Whenever I run a mission I just get lost among the different views and

after a while my tank develops a will of it's own and does everthing but

what I want it to do. :sad2: This even happens when I take it really carefully,

pausing a lot and keeping the manual's Key Chart right in front of me.

I know I might sound pretty retarded, but this sim is just too hard for

me as it is now... :confused:

How did you learn it and is there some obvious "trick" to it that I'm missing?

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Posted by Flak

I'm finding it really hard to learn SB Pro and need some help on how

to manage my way through the training missions. I know the answer

probably is to just do them in the correct order, but I've tried to do

that and I still can't manage the sim at all.

Keep at it. I was like you when I started. There were times when I didn't think I could make it, but I'm a solid platoon leader and a fine substitute company leader.
Posted by Flak

What's the absolutely easiest vehicle to learn and are there any super easy

missions I can try with?

I got started on the Bradley tutorials. Just start at the beginning and work. The Bradley doesn't have automatic lead, so it'll teach you about leading your targets. Once you're a good Bradley commander, try the Leopard 2A4 tutorials.
Posted by... You know by now

Whenever I run a mission I just get lost among the different views and

after a while my tank develops a will of it's own and does everthing but

what I want it to do. This even happens when I take it really carefully,

pausing a lot and keeping the manual's Key Chart right in front of me.

Lay out a route in the F5 map view, and when you need to get back on route, hit the C key. Also, you can drive from the gunner or TC's position. I'm so good at driving now that I don't usually make my routes anymore. Finally, keep the Key chart out. You'll need it a lot in the beginning.

If you want us to talk with you, as per DarkAngel's excellent suggestion, you can talk with me and the other players on TeamSpeak before we have our weekly battle tomorrow at 10 PM EST (GMT -5).

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Well, the best way is to really follow the tutorials. Thats why they are there.

Short of that, then run instant action. Practice gunning only. Use the T key to override the TC if he keeps trying to override you. Dont worry about driving or TCing or the map or anything else. Look for targets and shoot them. Theres no need to change views or anything else. Just sit in the gunsight and shoot stuff.

Learn ONE tank initally. There are several different FCS in use, so its easier to learn one. If you like the M1, then concentrate on that. Its very well documented in the wiki on how to use it.

As far as all the views, I don't see how its different from any other sim I've played over the years. You will need the map view, and the gunner primary sight at a minimum.

If you want a super easy mission, then make one in the mission editor. Place one tank on the blue side for you, then place a few enemy tanks on the red side for you to shoot.

I learned by reading the directions, and some people online also gave me tips after I got started. Im sure that people will be willing help you on teamspeak. Just show up early for some of the scheduled events and people will be able to point you in the right direction at least.

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Greetings,

Start with a tank in the Leopard family, as the user interface is somewhat easier to manage and some actions are completed automatically for you.

Are you using a joystick or mouse to control the gunnery aspects?

Have the F8 view (outside) as your primary location ...to start, check with the map often (F5) for routing and any enemy contacts that are dectected before they open fire on something.

Know the key sets to switch between the outside view and the gunners primary sight (F8 to F6). Know the keys for moving to the commanders location (F7) from that position you have various other "views" you can switch to, 1.seated- up, down. 2.episcopes or armoured view ports around the copola. 3. Peri sight (very useful for selecting targets and also navigating) 4. Overview of the Gunners sight (useful for seeing what the gunner is looking at and overriding him to either move the gunner onto a new target or assuming control of the gun and firing yourself) 5. The gunners primary sight (there are other sights but stay in the primary sight for now) -find the tgt,laze, track if nessary and fire, observe the target for effect or the commander may tell you to "re-engage". Remember if there are more than one target to select the "most dangerious one first" normally the tank that is facing you or firing at you.

Know how to laze a target and track it (selecting the ammo can only be done from the commanders position) Also know how to set the rebomb [load ready rack or transfer ammo to usable location]for the vehicle. (from top menu or from icon at bottom right)-- reverse out of line of fire contact during this order or it may be you last. (gun moves over side or back deck to access ammo storage areas)

Only stay in a firing position for a few rounds them MOVE as the enemy will be working on your final range and will probably be calling in "arty" on your location (standard time to first arty round impact may be 2 mins or less)

Study the map and ground you will be moving over or through and select as tactical a move as allows for your mission and unit size. Keep in mind where the enemy may be located (or where you would setup if you were the enemy) in relation to your movement route. Advance cautiously but be bold. use your other unit elements to assist your moves (lower right selection icons and select "advance to" and set the location with your mouse in the current outside view.)

Try some of that and post you progress, remember don't be jumping around through the units vehicles stay in the element command vehicle and "supervise" from there.

Later ..... 9erRed

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Almost everyone has gone through what you are experiencing now. Indeed, the sim has a steep learning curve but the payoff is worth it.

What worked for me - I broke it down into steps. First, I did played the tutorials about bazillion times in order to learn the mechanics (button pushing) of each tank to point where it became second nature. Do as Sean suggested, get to know one tank before moving on to another. This will make the transition to the next step much easier.

Next, I learned the operational end (tactics, ass whooping, and general mayhem) by playing online. You only can learn so much by yourself playing offline as you are discovering. You will find the community very tolerant of noobs. Like the others said, just let people know and they will help and won't assign you a task beyond your capabilities. Just be aware that online play is much more brutal than offline so don't that get you down because in time, it does get easier. Plus, if you do get get slaughtered, it's comforting to know that you did not die alone and you guys can have a good laugh about it afterwards. Watch the AARs after each battle and learn what works and what doesn't.

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The learning curve actually is two curves, one for the interface, and one regarding tactics and reading the terrain and unit management.

Focus on one thing at a time. Focus on just one tank, and make it a strong tank. the Leo2A5 is maybe the best choice: best situational awareness, tougher armour than the A4, better ergonomy in gunnery handling than the M1, easier GAS than the Strv-122.

If you have a HOTAS, keymap it carefully, and spend some time on thinking about the layout. Be ready to correct your initial layout. After you played a couple of matches, you will tell by experience, which functions and commands you need often, and which one not so often. Handling your tank that way should become something you do blindly, without thinking about it.

Next focus on driving from TC position. Concentrate on getting your tank into hull down positions behind ridges. Jump to gunner's seat and switch between GPS and GAS. The latter gives you a better impression of what the cannon tube actually can see and what obstacles to vision it clears, and what not. The GPS is mounted higher on the tank than the GAS and cannon, so it can actually see over a ridgeline whereas the cannon and GAS eventually cannot. Practice gunnery, both with stick and mouse. Estimated ranges, understand the difference between different ammunitions.

Next practice gunnery from GAS, first stationary targets of course.

Next get busy with the editor, and make sure you thoroughly understand the principles behind conditioned routes. Watch at maps, and then jump into real view and check your mental image with reality. Increase height lines in the map options from 15m (?) to 2 or 5 m if the terrain allows (not too steep). that way ypou get a better 3-dimensional impression from looking at the map.

Not before all this, start with manouvering a formation, a platoon. Try different formations, and see what they do, and how the vehicles orientate themselves (hull, turret). stay with scenarios with just one playable platoon for a long time to come.

Use the editor to change scenarios that feature different playable tanks. Make the Leo2A5 (if that was your choice to learn with) the playable tank in these scenarios.

Don't bother with manually handling infantry and artillery for the forseeable future. stay with your tank of choice.

The sequence of "tank difficulty", from "easy" to "difficult" (considering handling, ergonomy, survivability):

Leo2A5

Strv-122

Leo2A4

M1A1

Leo1, CV9040

M2

Obviously it is a good idea to leave the IFV and the Leo1 for last, since they are thin-skinned, and first hit usually means game over for them. Also, you will later understand that you use IFVs in a different way than you use MBTs. But do not try two things at the same time: learn just one thing, learn one single MBT.

Handling can and will be mastered relateivly quickly, believe me. The second learning curve I mentioned, regarding tactics, is not so much to be learned by textbooks only, but by routine and especially experience. It will come all by itself if only you do not give up too early and keep on playing regularly. Use the AAR tool, to understand what happened around you, how what reacted to what, check the often unexpected vision lines at long shots, and spend attention to the interaction between action and terrain.

Patience, young paravan! Comes practice, comes mastery. the frustration you face right now will be the source of delight and reward later, once you have left the initial hurdles behind. Winning in SBP does not easily compare to winning just any another shallow game. It more feels like an acchievement. The interface, btw, is considered to be easy, compared with some other simulations. Learning to handles the many avionics and radar and weapons systems of Falcon 4.0 for a newbie is much, much more difficult, believe me.

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Like Sean just mentioned: "...make one [easy mission] in the mission editor."

I found this the best way to learn various tactics without having to feel stressed. As various situations develop through a self-designed mission, you have time to think and do the right thing in the right order. Then when you get the hang of it, speed up the reaction of your enemy and add some surprises to your own mission.

Keep on learning, don't give up. We have all been there! (I'm still there :))

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Flak,me ol' mucker.DONT give up!Yes,its got a near vertical learning curve,but the rewards are worth the hassle.I did the tutorials and did well on some and REALLY crap at some.The main thing to practise is the Gunnery.To that end play the gunnery range untill you can kill with one eye shut.I dont use a Joystick just a laptop with a pressure mouse pad which works a treat esp when tracking vehicles.The hardest thing is getting your head around "lead",happily there is help with this in the Leopard.(PRESUMABLY THERE IS ALSO ON THE m1,BUT I HAVENT USED ONE OF THEM YET)Practise the gunnery as much as you can then try a simple scenario(i suggest .platoon recon.sce ) you get 3 tanks(leos) to play with.Try using small waypoints as long ones may have or cause probs.If you have a long set of waypoints and as you meander from one to another your World becomes full of screaming metal you will need to react and reappraise your plan,however if you click the resume way point or move to a different vehicle the previous unit will revert to the original plan.In the scenario i suggest try driving the tank your self,stopping every so often and sweep the arcs with your gunner.if all clear off you go.Repeat till you either win or die!I have played this scenario many times to round off my skills with a platoon of tanks before i take on the added responsibility of troops and other types of AFV's.Dont expect to become Monty overnight,it just WONT happen.I have only been playing SB ProPe for a few weeks and its still a steep learning curve.There are a few scenarios in the down load section that ive used to practise on.It might be an idea for one night/day for an "old sweat" to take us noobs on a coop mission to improve our skills.

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Thanks for all the suggestions folks!

I really appreciate it, especially the encourage I get! :)

Are you using a joystick or mouse to control the gunnery aspects?

I use a joystick and that I actually have no problems with. The laz'ing

and shooting part, and the movment of the turret is working really good.

My keyboard on the other hand is one that I'm not very confortable with,

it's a Logitech multimedia keyboard with too many buttons, buttons in the

wrong places and some of them are too hard/stiff to use confortably.

Similar to this one

I'm gonna replace that with an older and simplier one, to see if that helps.

- - - - -

Now I'm going to start all over again from the begining with SB Pro and

I will read a lot more here on the forum, starting with all the other Newbie

threads.

I'm also going to try and write down what I learn in a notebook. I did that

when I first got the sim, but somehow stopped doing that. Feels like I have

to do that now...

Needless to say I'll test all the things you guys suggested above. :cvcys:

I've used English speaking Teamspeak for years, and probably won't have

too much trouble with that. I'll sneak my way in there one of these days...

It sounds like SB Pro might deserve at least one serious effort, so I'm just

going to westle with it a bit more seriously now...

Once again, thanks for the replies guys! :smile2:

- - - - -

Edit: And here's a pic for you! ;)

skvde3zl7.th.jpg

link to full size!

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I will tell you this. A buddy of mine showed up not knowing a thing. He just got SB1 and jumped into multiplayer. He quickly became pretty damned good at it. SB Pro PE is pretty much the same thing with learning curve for most of the tanks. So you will do ok with it. Just focus on one AFV and get the hang of that and the others will get easier to learn.

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Pick one scenario where you command no more than 3 tanks.Then play it again and again,varying the route you take.This way you will become au fait with the AFV in question.It will also afford you to play around with the planning map untill it becomes much easier.Then move to a scenario with a few more units.I mught have a bash at making a few beginners scenarios where the amount of units you control increases.

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Flak,

Here's something we might try. Once you feel a bit more comfortable with the system, join in on a Friday night TGIF. I'll take a platoon, you take a single vehicle of whatever type well down the list. Then I'll give you one of the tanks in my platoon, and you give me the vehicle you initially took. Then you and I will go hunting! You lose your tank, I'll give you one of mine remaining. This way, you'll get to experience a Friday night slugfest in all of it's glory, hear what's going on and see how the "sides" operate, and you'll only have to deal with one tank at a time.

Cheers!

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Hi Flak,

One thing I found really helpful back in the SB1 days and that I think will still teach you many of the basics you are looking for is the Anti-Frustration Kit. You can find and download it here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/269/p13_fileid/277

And although it is also an SB1 resource, you may also find the Recognition guide helpful here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/269/p13_fileid/284

For a newbie, you will find this scenario, Calvary to the Rescue, one of the easiest to get up to speed with:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/681

Joust is good practice for moving gunnery and a lot of fun:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/1182

Skybird made a very nice demo of some of the different SBPro features into a scenario of sorts here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/1128

The Tank Tables are good practice as well:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/803

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/804

I have not tried this one yet, but it looks like it might be up your ally:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/267/p13_fileid/1240

A great old standard which Black Death updated for SBPro is Tanks. It is one unit versus 9 and is great practice for moving about and learning situational awareness. Learn how to shut off your engines and listen too!

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/24/p13_fileid/1103

And most importantly, get online!

The first few games I played I joined as an observer (they gave me a M113) and I jumped out from unit to unit and watched those with experience play (F10 and F5) all the while asking lots of questions.

Good fun. Make good friends and after one or two of those, you will want to jump in the action.

It is also fun to do Fully Manned Tanks. That is, instead of having your own unit, you partner up with another player. One in the gunner position and one in the TC position. A third can even do F8 observer and just keep an eye out. This is a great way to see how the more experienced players do what they do.

So Multi-Play (MP) is highly recommended.

Don't be shy and welcome!

~mm

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Hi folks!

I'm finding it really hard to learn SB Pro and need some help on how

to manage my way through the training missions. I know the answer

probably is to just do them in the correct order, but I've tried to do

that and I still can't manage the sim at all. :frown:

.....

Hi Flak,

If you passing Swedish Land Warfare Centre in Kvarn (Markstridsskolan, Borensberg) some day, you can contact us and we will give you a lesson handling the sim with focus on Strv 122 and CV 9040.

Best regards

Mats Walldén

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What mapman said, in spades, and amplified. Especially the bit about playing in multiplayer.

I never learned so much about the game as I did when playing MP. This by the by is probably the single greatest strength of the game. You might learn a lot by playing the scenarios on the CD individually, but I guarantee you that your gaming experience will be both broadened and transformed (for the positive) by playing a lot of MP sessions.

Will you get your ass kicked through your skull? Probably; but that's a positive in that you were (in MP) playing alongside teammies who you didn't want to let down. Believe me when I tell you that there is no more powerful motivator to learn how to play better, that you might not let your team down so bad the next time.

I'm on record as saying that I suck at SB; but I continue to play because of the MP aspect, which in keeping with the earlier advice motivates me to mitigate ass-kickings, at least insofar as I'm able. I suck and I know it; but I keep coming back and I do it for the people on my team that I'd let down if I didn't practice.

Note that I still suck, but through sheer dint of will and at least a little luck I've managed to hand one or two heads to one or two opponents, who were doubtless gulled by my rep.

Keep at it. Play lots of MP. You'll get better. You'll have no choice. Ask me how I know.

Shot

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@ Mapman: That's exactly the sort of list I was hoping for.

A list of missions that I might manage if I'm lucky and keep playing

them a couple of hundred times! ;) Tnx!

Hi Flak,

If you passing Swedish Land Warfare Centre in Kvarn (Markstridsskolan, Borensberg) some day, you can contact us and we will give you a lesson handling the sim with focus on Strv 122 and CV 9040.

Hmmm... If I would like to come and look at the Army´s facilities at Kvarn? :shocked:

Flak-P-4.jpg

Of course I would! jumping0026.gif

Check your PM's! :drink:

@ ShotMagnet: Of course my goal is the MP sessions, but there's

no way I'm going to show up there when I'm this bad. It would just be

annoying to everybody... As soon as I can tell the front from the back

of the tank I might give it a try.

- - - - -

I must say I'm a bit touched by the sheer amount of replies in this thread!

I've even received PM's from people who want to help me directly!

It's obvious that the BS community is very friendly and there are a lot of

people here who really love the sim!

I can assure you all who have replied that I'm crappily enough at SB that I

will try everything you've suggested here!

And if there were´nt a five images maximun in the posts, there would be

a lot more smilies here!

Edited by Flak
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It's obvious that the BS community is very friendly

And the SB community can be also. :clin:

I remember during my 3rd MP game, I was picking tanks off at +4000 with ease.

I would cry out that I got another and my team mates would give me praise...followed by someone crying out they kept loosing their units, not knowing where the shots came from! :redface:

Well lets just say the AAR was a lot friendlier than I deserved :biggrin:

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