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AEV breaching anti-tank ditch with Vehicle emplacement.


Kingtiger

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"Bug" but almost a feature as the AEV can't breach the anti-tank ditch currently.

 

When using AEV to dig a vehicle emplacement across a tank ditch it creates a dirt path that is drivable across the ditch. 
The same second as you hit "start work" the flat surface builds a bridge and as time goes on the ground lowers to a proper vehicle emplacement.

 

To replicate with attached scenario:
set the AEV to dig a vehicle emplacement (one or two tier doesn't make any difference) and put the vehicle emplacement across the anti-tank ditch marker. 

Observe as the AEV creates a road across the anti-tank ditch in 1 second and then start digging into the ground to create the vehicle emplacement.

 

/KT

aev1.jpg

aev2.jpg

AEV vs Anti-tank ditch.sce

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Thanks for report... Breaching  of  AT ditches  by digging  passages    or by detonating  IEDs/demolition charges to collapse their walls  is not implemented in 4.250.  At this point the only 'officially approved' option is to use  bridgelayers or deployable mobile bridges.

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47 minutes ago, Jartsev said:

Thanks for report... Breaching  of  AT ditches  by digging  passages    or by detonating  IEDs/demolition charges to collapse their walls  is not implemented in 4.250.  At this point the only 'officially approved' option is to use  bridgelayers or deployable mobile bridges.

Well, don't fix this till the other stuff works 😉

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35 minutes ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

 

I don't understand why its an issue- Moving dirt to create a passage in a ditch is wrong?

 

How did the Egyptians cross the Sainai?

How did the US beach into Iraq from Saudi Arabia?

 

In both cases, excavation techniques were used to cross ditches/embankments.

 

Why not leave it and let the scenario designers decide?

Problem is that you only need to place the AEV close, and then put a planned BP on the map = instant breach

They should fix it so that the AEV needs to do at least some work

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Okay, so we failed making the anti-tank ditch walls slippery and low traction enough, that's on us. But don't expect this to work in subsequent releases. Also, mineplows aren't earthmovers. You'd probably break them if you did a stunt like this in real life. We don't have anough of a physics simulation underneath to enforce this but rest assured that this doesn't reflect our intent and we reserve the right to prevent such exploits in the future. Thanks for letting us know. :)

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1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

But don't expect this to work in subsequent releases

So...regardless of our ability to manipulate terrain in real time, then the only solution to breach an Anti-Tank ditch is to use a mobile bridge?

 

None of the engineer vehicles (with excavator plows) will move dirt. 

Mine plows WILL move dirt, but using them to excavate is an 'exploit' now.

 

So a new feature was added (AT Ditch) with only ONE very specific solution?

 

And the only method is not functioning correctly:

 

Edited by Apocalypse 31
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2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Okay, so we failed making the anti-tank ditch walls slippery and low traction enough, that's on us. But don't expect this to work in subsequent releases. Also, mineplows aren't earthmovers. You'd probably break them if you did a stunt like this in real life. We don't have anough of a physics simulation underneath to enforce this but rest assured that this doesn't reflect our intent and we reserve the right to brevent such exploits in the future. Thanks for letting us know. :)

So could a AEV be used in this instance or would that be considered an exploit too? 

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4 minutes ago, Assassin 7 said:

So could a AEV be used in this instance or would that be considered an exploit too? 

None of the engineer vehicles move dirt unless they are ordered to build something.

 

OR

 

are equipped with a mine plow

 

The only equipment that can move dirt are the the mine plows.

Edited by Apocalypse 31
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You discovered an exploit. 

Thanks for reporting it.

We'll eliminate that exploit with the first patch.

 

That shouldn't surprise anyone. You shouldn't read more into this either

It is somewhat ironic that some of the people who said that they didn't care for engineering options in Steel Beasts less than eight weeks ago are now so concerned that we might take engineering assets away that they are putting words into my mouth that there would "never" be a solution other than bridgelayers. Seriously, how's an honest and constructive discussion supposed to work that way?

 

What I wrote above applies to the short term situation. In the medium term I would, of course, want earthmovers to be able to fill holes in the terrain (or to use AEV excavators for this, eventually). We ran out of time for this release so not all implications of anti-tank ditches were tested; the alternative would have been to not include AT ditches at all when they are one of the early application cases of the capabilities of the new terrain engine.

What's just not acceptable both from a game design and simulation fidelity perspective is that you can create a planned emplacement across an AT ditch and then use a high-speed drive-by with an engineer vehicle 200m away from the construction site to make an insta-breach of the ditch. I hope that nobody here is seriously arguing in favor of such a "solution".

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42 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

It is somewhat ironic that some of the people who said that they didn't care for engineering options in Steel Beasts less than eight weeks ago are now so concerned that we might take engineering assets away that they are putting words into my mouth that there would "never" be a solution other than bridgelayers

 

 

I'm not very interested in seeing this stuff in game. My opinion hasn't changed. 

 

We have it now, so I might as well learn how to use it. 

 

What is the in-game method for crossing an AT ditch?

Edited by Apocalypse 31
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1 hour ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

 

 

I'm not very interested in seeing this stuff in game. My opinion hasn't changed. 

 

We have it now, so I might as well learn how to use it. 

 

What is the in-game method for crossing an AT ditch?

Engineer bridge

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1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

You discovered an exploit. 

Thanks for reporting it.

We'll eliminate that exploit with the first patch.

 

That shouldn't surprise anyone. You shouldn't read more into this either

It is somewhat ironic that some of the people who said that they didn't care for engineering options in Steel Beasts less than eight weeks ago are now so concerned that we might take engineering assets away that they are putting words into my mouth that there would "never" be a solution other than bridgelayers. Seriously, how's an honest and constructive discussion supposed to work that way?

 

What I wrote above applies to the short term situation. In the medium term I would, of course, want earthmovers to be able to fill holes in the terrain (or to use AEV excavators for this, eventually). We ran out of time for this release so not all implications of anti-tank ditches were tested; the alternative would have been to not include AT ditches at all when they are one of the early application cases of the capabilities of the new terrain engine.

What's just not acceptable both from a game design and simulation fidelity perspective is that you can create a planned emplacement across an AT ditch and then use a high-speed drive-by with an engineer vehicle 200m away from the construction site to make an insta-breach of the ditch. I hope that nobody here is seriously arguing in favor of such a "solution".

OK thanks, also will use the Bridge Layer for Tank Ditch Crossing for now in Multiplayer. 

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Non-expert here, but I could see the creation of a lane IRL being somewhat more complex than just driving a vehicle through the ditch with a dozer blade deployed. Doing it as you describe could make the breach a little too narrow. Just a WAG though.

Edited by TankHunter
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2 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

Could you not take the mine plow earth moving code and plug it into dozer blade code ?

With a space bar drop/raise blade interface?

Yes, it'd be "broken" but in the words of one eSim developer "it works"

(Until you try and fix it, then it'd stop working) :)

 

Well its a bit more work - you have the berm on either side to reduce and push into the ditch etc.

 

The average AEV does not have the same dirt moving power of a D9 or similar.

 

It takes a few "pushes" (technical term?) to reduce the berm, not one.

 

Edited by Gibsonm
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