Infantry spotting and concealment?

[stormrider_sp]

Good morning, I would like to ask if this could be improved somehow. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. I noticed that even foot soldiers that are meant to be hard to spot like a two men sniper team, are easily spotted even when concealed in a forest area. Perhaps foot units inside a forest area should receive some sort of visibility bonus, both on prone and on knees.

 

The example below shows what I would call very unlikely:

Sniper team spotted by a marching BMP-2 platoon (no thermal sights) at about 2 football fields length.

 

Sniper team concealed and camuflaged inside a EU-tall-conifer-forest.

 

Real location from the leading BMP's FOV.

 

The moment when the sniper team was spotted.

Edited April 16, 2021 by stormrider_sp

[Ssnake]

Yeah... the way it is right now doesn't make anyone at eSim Games happy either.

[Bond_Villian]

Increasing the bumpiness of the wooded terrain might help a bit

[Ssnake]

No.

[Volcano]

Yes, it has been that way since SB1 -- we model cover, not concealment (actually most games out there don't model concealment either). There are ideas on how to model concealment, but they will have to wait for a future new engine.

[Bond_Villian]

9 hours ago, Ssnake said:

No.

Huh? I was suggesting to the OP that he increase the bumpiness on the woods terrain so that the dudes sink into it more, and/or are hidden by the bumps of the ground

Edited April 16, 2021 by Bond_Villian

[Ssnake]

Yes, it'll help with their survival. And up to a point increasing bumpiness CAN reduce the chance of being spotted, but only while thery are completely stationary. And even then it just delays the inevitable. It's not a magical fix to the situation.

[Koen]

I vaguely remember from SB1 that a tank standing in front of a row of trees or a forest would be spotted later by the AI-units, compared to a tank not in front of trees.

=> Does this still apply today in SB Pro PE ?

 

@stormrider_spGreat how you added the pic from the real World 🌍 😊

(but why is there no BMP on that one ? 😎)

 

@Ssnake and colls of eSim: amazing ! how close the SB world is to the real world ! Thx !

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Koen

[Lumituisku]

20 minutes ago, Koen said:

 

@Ssnake and colls of eSim: amazing ! how close the SB world is to the real world ! Thx !

 

Indeed. I have been told multiple times how immersive lighting and lights in Steelbeast are. How Steelbeast looks way more real than other games. 

 

I also personally love how Steelbeast feels. There is sluggishness to movement and how things happen and move that feels way more real and immersive than on other products. 

 

- 

23 minutes ago, Koen said:

I vaguely remember from SB1 that a tank standing in front of a row of trees or a forest would be spotted later by the AI-units, compared to a tank not in front of trees.

 That sounds odd? 

 

- 

 

But about concealment...  On certain types of forest and locations it is possible to get feeling of being concealed, almost with no or very little worry of being spotted. Trouble is. One needs to be way deeper in the woods. 

 

As i understand it,  AI spotting ability or cone is only more rarely /  occasionally on direct side or rear and so if you are hiding deep in the woods with small observation holes to observe movement of enemy units that are preferably very close to forest and moving on parallel to you. It is possible to almost mindlessly kill lot of them without you being spotted. Mind you... Works on players too. But is very specific in how and when it works. 

 

And then the downside... Sometimes with terrible luck. You can be spotted through thickest of forest thought tiniest little hole that even bit of you can be seen... And if hole is big enough. Executed by AI tanks.. or autocannon fire. 

 

I suppose..  there is kind of balance to this. If you want to avoid being seen... Go deeper into woods with risk and downside that you will see less. : /

 

forest does offer protection too from HE based rounds or missiles. So that's why I use this tactic a lot.  

 

And last... Against enemy AFVs traveling on roads. Certain types of trees have branches little bit high from ground and when located near roads block their line of sight but not yours. Making them blind as elefants. And very easy prey for your AT weapons or even your well positioned tanks or AFVs. 

[stormrider_sp]

8 hours ago, Bond_Villian said:

Huh? I was suggesting to the OP that he increase the bumpiness on the woods terrain so that the dudes sink into it more, and/or are hidden by the bumps of the ground

 

Thank you. I tried with snow earlier, but it happens that the infantry sank so much into it that although it was still being spotted, it couldn't spot anything a foot in front of them. I'll try the bump up the bumpness a bit.

 

Does forest ground clutter like bushes affect LOS?

 

One dirt trick I could think to improve the spotting logic is to use a bit of abstractions. I guess the spotting in the current engine is straight out solid, based solely on the LOS. Perhaps using a bit of a wargaming rules, and rolling a die and applying DRMs against a Results Table might offer a new degree of convincibility to this situation. For example, giving a flag for each type of terrain (is high vegetation, is low vegetation, is flat, is infantry) and then at the moment when a unit spots an infantry, before it resolves, it runs a die: if "spotted unit" like "is infantry" and "prone" and "is high vegetation" then -2. D10 roll was 6, DRM = 4. Comparing to the table, 4 = not spotted.

 

 

 

[Retro]

On 4/17/2021 at 8:37 AM, Koen said:

I vaguely remember from SB1 that a tank standing in front of a row of trees or a forest would be spotted later by the AI-units, compared to a tank not in front of trees.

=> Does this still apply today in SB Pro PE ?

 

Yes. Also vehicles being skylined will be spotted faster.

[Koen]

👍