Repeating Triggers

[Striker]

Is this possible? I've looked through all the documentation and done a bunch of searches but from what I've seen triggers can only be set once. I want a trigger that infinite repeats when someone enters and leaves a zone.

[DarkAngel]

not possible

[Striker]

RGR, thanks.

[Bond_Villian]

1 hour ago, Striker said:

I want a trigger that infinite repeats when someone enters and leaves a zone.

Well, if a trigger is set, it is effectively infinite unless it is unset.

It would help if you described what you are trying to achieve, but perhaps you should be using a condition such as IF UNIT THIS IS IN REGION X

[Ssnake]

Yes. A condition describes "what is" - like a unit X being in region Y. It can flip state without limit.

 

Triggers can also change state without limitations, but you need to activate them manually. Whenever you use a trigger it toggles state; was it active already, it now becomes "not active" etc.

 

Events describe "what was" and as such they can change state only once, from "hasn't happened, ever" to "was true at least once".

[Striker]

On 4/29/2021 at 9:34 PM, Bond_Villian said:

Well, if a trigger is set, it is effectively infinite unless it is unset.

It would help if you described what you are trying to achieve, but perhaps you should be using a condition such as IF UNIT THIS IS IN REGION X

OK, so none of what you have said applies to my original question and I probably could have phrased it a little differently. I was asking specifically if there is a way to make a trigger act like a switched condition like they can indefinitely in DCS. "in zone on", "out of zone off". I'm very familiar with the way that the trigger system works in SB otherwise.

[Ssnake]

Like we wrote, what you seem to be looking for is a (nameable) CONDITION.

"Trigger" has a special meaning in Steel Beasts. They can only be toggled by human (!) action.

If you want to check if [Unit X] is in [Region Y], you first need to create a (nameable) condition that checks for this constellation and which will return "true" if the unit IS in that region if referenced somewhere else.

[Striker]

RGR Ssnake, rephrasing again. I mean nameable condition that can be switched on and off continuously. Sorry, I'm used to saying "triggers" because that's what a zone is for in Arma and DCS, we call them trigger zones. In SB they're regions. I want to know if a region can be used to have a continuous action like player in, switch on, player out, switch off.

[Ssnake]

You can't reference the presence of a human. Just units, occupied or not.

[Mirzayev]

@Striker It might help if you give us an example of what you are trying to do. For example:

 

"I want to spawn an enemy tank platoom within 5 minutes (+ or - up to 10% for randomization) upon BLUE occupying a battle position. I also want to send a message to the player indicating that SIGINT has detected that the enemy will conduct a counterattack within 5 minutes."

 

We can possibly give you a solution to what you want to do with a description like that above.

[Striker]

1 hour ago, Ssnake said:

You can't reference the presence of a human. Just units, occupied or not.

Units are fine, again, I referenced player but I mean "unit enters or exits region".

[Striker]

38 minutes ago, Mirzayev said:

@Striker It might help if you give us an example of what you are trying to do. For example:

 

"I want to spawn an enemy tank platoom within 5 minutes (+ or - up to 10% for randomization) upon BLUE occupying a battle position. I also want to send a message to the player indicating that SIGINT has detected that the enemy will conduct a counterattack within 5 minutes."

 

We can possibly give you a solution to what you want to do with a description like that above.

Already did give an example: "Unit inside region-condition on; Unit outside of region-condition off". My question is can this be continuous on and off using the same region and condition.

[Mirzayev]

You aren't explaining your endstate. Why do you want the condition to be on when a unit enters a region? What do you want that condition to do? 

 

Explaining that will help us help you.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Mirzayev

[Striker]

59 minutes ago, Mirzayev said:

You aren't explaining your endstate. Why do you want the condition to be on when a unit enters a region? What do you want that condition to do? 

 

Explaining that will help us help you.

You are not understanding me! But partly because of my original phrasing of the question. It's super simple. I want to know if it's even possible as a general rule to have a continuous switched condition. "Enter the zone, condition on, exit the zone condition is off". There is no endstate, there is no scenario. This is just a general question regarding the possibility of using the the conditions to be able to make it so it's either on or off as a continuous system rather than having to create the same condition over and over again using a long list of follow up conditions. But it's looking like it's not possible so I'll figure something else out.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Striker

[Gibsonm]

15 minutes ago, Striker said:

You are not understanding me! But partly because of my original phrasing of the question. It's super simple. I want to know if it's even possible as a general rule to have a continuous switched condition. "Enter the zone, condition on, exit the zone condition is off". There is no endstate, there is no scenario. This is just a general question regarding the possibility of using the the conditions to be able to make it so it's either on or off as a continuous system rather than having to create the same condition over and over again using a long list of follow up conditions. But it's looking like it's not possible so I'll figure something else out.

 

My turn.

 

"Trigger", "Event" and "Condition" are all defined terms within the SB Logic set.

 

Yes they are generically "triggers" or "decision points" but each of the three have different application.

 

It sounds like you are after something along the lines of "if units are in region A (or some other criteria), then do B"

 

You can certainly create a "Condition" that does that.

 

As units move through Region A (or whatever criteria you have set) the the result will toggle continuously between "Yes" and "No" and whatever subsequent message or similar will be displayed.

 

If the outcome spawns a unit then I'm afraid that only happens once as there is only one unit to spawn.

 

But you certainly can have messages displayed saying something like "The enemy is reported at A" as many times as you want.

 

Unsure if that helps.

[Striker]

OK, this is actually helpful Gibsonm but my follow up question is this.
Is the condition continuously checked for "yes" or "no"?
I'm finding that it's not.

The example I'm using is that I have unit 1-A driving across the terrain and hasn't gone into a square region called for example "empty space".

Before the unit 1-A enters the "empty space" the obvious condition is "no", once 1-A enters "empty space" the condition is "yes".
After unit 1-A exits on the other side does the condition get reset back to "no" again?
I've found that when I create a region to do a condition that tells the human players that they've entered a region it only happens once and won't get reset back to the default condition.
That's what I'm asking, is there a way to make it so that it does?
Or are all conditions checked once and that's it?

 

I'm really sorry about asking stuff like this.
I know most of you are patient and trying to figure out what I mean so it's a little frustrating.
I treat this more like a game than a lot of you do, I know some of you treat it like a hard core realistic training simulation and a lot of you are purists.
I get it so thanks for trying to help!

Edited May 2, 2021 by Striker

[Ssnake]

3 minutes ago, Striker said:

OK, this is actually helpful Gibsonm but my follow up question is this.
Is the condition continuously checked for "yes" or "no"?
I'm finding that it's not.

I don't know what to say. Conditions are continuously being checked and can flip state as often as you like. I wrote as much in my first line of my first reply in this thread:

Everything after was a rephrasing of that initial statement in an attempt to clarify the terminology, in essence.

[Ssnake]

6 minutes ago, Striker said:

Before the unit 1-A enters the "empty space" the obvious condition is "no", once 1-A enters "empty space" the condition is "yes".
After unit 1-A exits on the other side does the condition get reset back to "no" again?
I've found that when I create a region to do a condition that tells the human players that they've entered a region it only happens once and won't get reset back to the default condition.

This can only be true if you're not paying attention to the terminology that I defined in the first reply (and the user's manual, which should be the first place to go anyway). What you describe is an EVENT. What you need instead is a (nameable) CONDITION. And a condition will deliver you exactly what you describe. That nameable condition can then be referenced anywhere - in other events, conditions,m the scoring formula, control logic such as embark conditions, even by other parties in your scenario.

[Striker]

4 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

This can only be true if you're not paying attention to the terminology that I defined in the first reply (and the user's manual, which should be the first place to go anyway). What you describe is an EVENT. What you need instead is a (nameable) CONDITION. And a condition will deliver you exactly what you describe. That nameable condition can then be referenced anywhere - in other events, conditions,m the scoring formula, control logic such as embark conditions, even by other parties in your scenario.

OK Ssnake, I misread that first response so my bad. I'll go over it again. Thanks.

[Ssnake]

Define a region (and following your example, label it "empty space"). Then open in the Mission Editor the Control menu where you then select Conditions, and pick one. there, you set the radio button to "Unit [1-A] is in Region empty space". You can give the condition a name (see User's Manual, pages 138f.) such as 1-A in empty space.

[Striker]

RGRT, I was trying to do it as an event, so my bad.
I'll go over that in the manual and make sure I'm doing it the right way.

Thanks!

[Striker]

OK, so I read the manual very carefully over the weekend and again this morning and I'm still not getting this to work, or I'm just not understanding how it should be set up. And I was doing it the way that was recommended even though my terminology was all FUBAR. So I need to understand why I can't get this to work or if it's not possible.

 

The scenario I'm attaching (part of map package) is very simple and has one region with the two tanks as 1/A and some shipping containers to visually ID the corners of the region. When the unit leaves the region they get a notification that they are out of bounds. According to the condition, if they re-enter the region, the condition is reset. Why can't I get this to repeat multiple times? Is it because the "event" can only be triggered one time in the scenario? Is there a way to overcome this limitation? Or should I be using a different method?

Region Test.sce

[Ssnake]

Well, how do you display the notification?

If I remember it well, you can set a messge on the screen only with an Event, not with a Condition. So if you create an Event based on the Condition being true (or false), the Event can change state only once (and therefore display its message only once, the moment that it becomes true). Conditions will revert state (something that you can check with the Mission Debugger), but not Events.

[stormrider_sp]

51 minutes ago, Striker said:

OK, so I read the manual very carefully over the weekend and again this morning and I'm still not getting this to work, or I'm just not understanding how it should be set up. And I was doing it the way that was recommended even though my terminology was all FUBAR. So I need to understand why I can't get this to work or if it's not possible.

 

The scenario I'm attaching (part of map package) is very simple and has one region with the two tanks as 1/A and some shipping containers to visually ID the corners of the region. When the unit leaves the region they get a notification that they are out of bounds. According to the condition, if they re-enter the region, the condition is reset. Why can't I get this to repeat multiple times? Is it because the "event" can only be triggered one time in the scenario? Is there a way to overcome this limitation? Or should I be using a different method?

Region Test.sce 98.33 kB · 0 downloads

If you had listen to previous suggestions to describe what you were trying to achieve in the first place, like others had said, you'd already had gotten the response. What you're looking for, apparently, are penalty zones.

[Striker]

2 hours ago, stormrider_sp said:

If you had listen to previous suggestions to describe what you were trying to achieve in the first place, like others had said, you'd already had gotten the response. What you're looking for, apparently, are penalty zones.

OK, there is absolutely no need to be condescending towards me about this. I obviously have some trouble with reading and understanding some things the way they are written and I came here for help and not to be berated about it. And I've been completely respectful towards everyone and a long time SB fan since around 2000. So if you can't keep it positive and respectful then please don't bother to contribute to the conversation. And penalty zones don't do that unless I'm completely missing something. They damage equipment, I already checked that a little while ago. So unless there's some special function that can be edited or modified I don't see that as a solution to the problem I'm trying to solve.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Striker