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Dustiness transition and ground saturation


Lumituisku
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...depending on what your dustiness settings for wet ground are. I presume you went for a 100% dustiness to 0% transition?

Nice illustration!

 

Of course, even a bit of a drizzle is already very effective in binding dust particles to bigger clumps, so yes, the dust-binding effect happens early on.

Should it be exactly where it is in the shown example? I suppose that'd be something we could debate. Maybe shift the "no dust" balance to 8% saturation. Nevertheless, as the rainwater enters the ground from the top layer, which is where all the dust is (duh), it's only natural that dust is the first thing to go when it starts raining.

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6 hours ago, Ssnake said:

...depending on what your dustiness settings for wet ground are. I presume you went for a 100% dustiness to 0% transition?

Nice illustration!

 

Of course, even a bit of a drizzle is already very effective in binding dust particles to bigger clumps, so yes, the dust-binding effect happens early on.

Should it be exactly where it is in the shown example? I suppose that'd be something we could debate. Maybe shift the "no dust" balance to 8% saturation. Nevertheless, as the rainwater enters the ground from the top layer, which is where all the dust is (duh), it's only natural that dust is the first thing to go when it starts raining.

 

Grumbles youre right. Good spotting...   I though I used theme with 15% to 20%  average dustiness   but turns out that it was 51%   as it seems that on mission selected there was summer theme so it was far more dusty than expected.  image.png.ae903a62b2f43bb438eeca7027e1ebbe.png  / Field-B /  0.51 dustiness

 

First 2 shots from Gunners AUX sight, second 2 from GPS  (as its higher it suffers less from dust)

 

Im thinking of redoing this all again to get things absolutely right and hopefully more pretty this time. >.<  Even when it won't be changing whole lot.  At very least i should correct info on the end of video. 

 

same still applies.  0 ground saturation maxes dust.. and 5% eliminates it  even from 100% dustiness.

 

Anyways...  it was really hard for me to get to understand ground saturations affect on dustiness as I moved that value to 10% first time.. and all dust disappeared.. then I moved it to 5% and still same.   For many months i didn't realize that it was 0-4%  that mattered.  

 

I did recearch on this matter trying to find out what is average ground saturation...  and to my surprice best sources i found were from Finland xD (in english)    according to those IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY  ground saturation on rainy season like autum goes even down what.. 40%  basically...  nearly standing water at that point.      and on average on summers (in fields)  around 4%   and down to 2%  when dry summer...     but of course with no plants just soil..  and extreme dry season... it could go all the way to 0%    In short...  usually ground saturation is around 2-4%     

 

 

I wanted to make this video to help other scenario makers and players to have easier time to manage their dust levels.  As that can be quite problematic  especially if something in between on / off  is desired.  

 

 

 

Edited by Lumituisku
checked dustiness on video, added correct numbers to this post
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Well, the default value for ground saturation is, I think, 0%. From that perspective, it's usually dusty at the beginning of a mission until the rain sets in, and then the dust is gone. That in itself shouldn't surprise many. I suppose we may add other non-linear transition effects with higher ground saturation later on.

 

In the context of the numbers that you mentioned, 0% in Steel Beasts probably is 2...3% in real life, and 100% in SB would represent 40% saturation in real life (beyond that point it's not much sense to speak of "ground" anymore, it's probably better described as "a buttomless pit of sludge"). So, maybe we should lift the "no dust" transition limit to 10% or so.

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11 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Well, the default value for ground saturation is, I think, 0%. From that perspective, it's usually dusty at the beginning of a mission until the rain sets in, and then the dust is gone. That in itself shouldn't surprise many. I suppose we may add other non-linear transition effects with higher ground saturation later on.

 

In the context of the numbers that you mentioned, 0% in Steel Beasts probably is 2...3% in real life, and 100% in SB would represent 40% saturation in real life (beyond that point it's not much sense to speak of "ground" anymore, it's probably better described as "a buttomless pit of sludge"). So, maybe we should lift the "no dust" transition limit to 10% or so.

 

Aaaargh..  we really need a converting table somewhere for these...  Steelbeast vs real life values.   I had always though that those were real life values.  Then again...  before I did recearch..  i didn't know of real life values..  so in that sence idea of SB values has served correctly.  It seems that when...  I took step too far I fell of from intended idea behind SB values.  

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Maybe these posts could be broken off into a separate thread in Scenario and Maps? I, too, have been struggling a bit with SB's dustiness settings and would like to ask a few questions .. but not derail the videos thread further.

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I've had difficulty achieving the effect I want because (traveling) dust levels seem to be either "on" or "off" rather than variable tied to a percentage. I see from Lumituisku's video at about the 1:10 mark that this (traveling) dustiness on/off switch seems also in effect with moisture levels.

 

I haven't experimented extensively, and don't have the capacity (or time) to work up a vid, but I'll post screenies later if wanted. But my experience has been that (traveling) dust when applied by theme for a ground type seems to be full-on from 100 down to about 20 percent ... then completely gone below about 20 percent. This is with soil moisture level at 0 in the map settings. Is that correct or intended? Or am I missing something?

 

What I've been trying unsuccessfully to achieve is less -- but still evident -- (traveling) dustiness for grassy areas than, say, gravel or a cultivated dry field.

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24 minutes ago, Splash said:

I haven't experimented extensively, and don't have the capacity (or time) to work up a vid, but I'll post screenies later if wanted. But my experience has been that (traveling) dust when applied by theme for a ground type seems to be full-on from 100 down to about 20 percent ... then completely gone below about 20 percent. This is with soil moisture level at 0 in the map settings. Is that correct or intended? Or am I missing something?

 

I noticed the same thing on my studies.  It was odd... that all off sudden traveling dustiness just disappears.  Also... It seems as if there is just one kind of trengh to traveling dustiness...  no transitions between as you can see from my video.  

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19 hours ago, Splash said:

I've had difficulty achieving the effect I want because (traveling) dust levels seem to be either "on" or "off" rather than variable tied to a percentage. I see from Lumituisku's video at about the 1:10 mark that this (traveling) dustiness on/off switch seems also in effect with moisture levels.

 

I haven't experimented extensively, and don't have the capacity (or time) to work up a vid, but I'll post screenies later if wanted. But my experience has been that (traveling) dust when applied by theme for a ground type seems to be full-on from 100 down to about 20 percent ... then completely gone below about 20 percent. This is with soil moisture level at 0 in the map settings. Is that correct or intended? Or am I missing something?

 

What I've been trying unsuccessfully to achieve is less -- but still evident -- (traveling) dustiness for grassy areas than, say, gravel or a cultivated dry field.

A description of how things work at this time.

 

The terrain dustiness is a result of combining the tile's dustiness value (from the map editor) and the ground saturation.

 

saturationDustFactor = (1 - saturation / 4%) or 1, which ever is lower.

finalDustiness = saturationDustFactor * tileMapDustiness.

 

at 0% saturation,  finalDustiness  = 100% of the tile's dustiness.

at 1% saturation, finalDustiness  = 75% of the tile's dustiness.

at 2% saturation, finalDustiness  = 50% of the tile's dustiness.

at 3% saturation, finalDustiness  = 25% of the tile's dustiness.

and at 4% saturation, finalDustiness  is 0%.

 

The finalDustiness must be greater than or equal to 25% in order for it to be kicked up be vehicles. 

 

Once the finalDustiness is found, it is then modulated against the vehicle speed to determine the scale and transparency of the dust.

 

I'll discuss this with the other developers to see if we can create a better solution.

 

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Thanks for the explanation. I hope a better solution can be worked out.


With more testing I have noticed a minor, but perceptible, difference between maximum and minimum tile dustiness in bone-dry conditions, and some very limited scalability using ground saturation values.  
But with the current setup, Theme dustiness settings below .25 appear to me to be pointless -- an automatic 0 on dust kicked up by vehicles. And .25 still yields quite a bit of dust, IMHO. 

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