TOandE's

[Stormin Norman]

Has anyone ever come arcoss specific unit orders of battle list or TOandE's? The best thing I could find was from a armor minitures game company. Microsoft PowerPoint - modcwus.pptx (fireandfury.com).

 

For instance, I'm looking for the vehicles available for 3'rd Armored "Spearhead" division 1988. I'm assuming they were prority for M1A1, but what about their infantry regiments? I'm assuming they used M2A1 Bradleys but they could still have been rolling wit M113's as far as I know.

[TSe419E]

I think I have something you can use.  I’ll post it soonish.

[TSe419E]

I found this document called "Equipment in USAEUR V Corps 84_86_88."  I have no idea how accurate it is.

 

In 1986:

 

     2. 3^rd Armored Division:

 

   a. The division fielded the M1 Improved Production (IP). This was a version of the M1 Abrams tanks that was armed with the 105mm main gun,     but had the armor package of the M1A1. Also, it had ‘turn the switch’ to disengage the final drives in order make towing the tank much, much         easier. (Any old tankers can tell one about ‘dropping’ the final drives on the M60 series tank). The M1 IP replaced all M60A3 tanks in the                 division’s armor battalions except for the tanks in the divisional cavalry. The plan was for the divisional cavalry squadron to go to pure M3 CFV       in the ground troops, so there was no need to replace the M60A3’s with M1’s.

 

In 1988:

 

     2. 3^rd Armored Division:

 

    a. The mechanized infantry battalions completed the fielding of the M2A1 Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV) [Bradley Fighting Vehicle]. The M2A1        replaced all M113’s and ITV’s in the mechanized infantry companies. Each infantry platoon had four IFV’s, three platoons in each company.            Company HQ had two IFV’s to replace the M113’s. The FISTV was not replaced. The Battalion HQ had two of its M113’s replaced by two              IFV’s.  The support units also changed. The support platoon now had eight M977 cargo HEMTT’s, four M978 tanker HEMTT’s like the                    armored battalions. The M88 medium recovery vehicle replaced the M578 light recovery vehicles. The M578 did not have enough towing                capacity to move the IFV. The scout platoon was fielded with six M3A1 CFV’s. The AT Company equipped with the ITV remained in the force.        After the first Gulf War, the AT companies were inactivated.

 

    b. The divisional cavalry squadron received its M3A1 CFV’s. In 1988 the squadron had no tanks. The cavalry troop was changed to its Division     ’86/AOE MTOE. The troop had two cavalry platoons of six CFV’s each. The troop HQ had two M3A1’s. Other equipment was not changed. The      squadron also had two air troops. Each air troop had eight AH-1S attack helicopters and four OH-58D observation helicopters. Squadron HQ        replaced the two M113 with M3A1 CFV’s. No other changes in the unit.

 

   c. In the divisional artillery, the 8” battalion was inactivated and the equipment retired.

 

   d. The divisional aviation brigade fielded the AH-64A Apache attack helicopter. The 21 AH-1S were replaced by 18 Apaches in the two attack         helicopter battalions.

 

They most likely got M1A1s after '92/'93.

Equipment in USAEUR V Corps 84_86_88.doc

[Stormin Norman]

Thanks!

 

    

3.  8^th Infantry Division:

 

          a.  The first armor battalion in the division, the 4-69 AR Bn, 1^st Brigade, was undergoing transition to the M1A1 tank in July 1988.  This was the Abrams tank armed with the 120mm main gun

 

This is really odd. Why would a infantry division get M1A1 first?

[TSe419E]

Because they had older M1s/M60A1/3s and the M1A1 was just coming out?  I really couldn't tell you.

[MAJ_Fubar]

3rd AD completed NET to M1A1s in October of '88, I was there.

[Major duck]

4 hours ago, TSe419E said:

Because they had older M1s/M60A1/3s and the M1A1 was just coming out?  I really couldn't tell you.

Nahh i think it is because it was one of the 2 high priority units to reinforce the fulda gap to reinforce 11th ACR with so both 8th INF and 3 AD would prolly have gotten them more or less at the same time

 

I might be wrong though

 

MD

Edited October 8, 2021 by Major duck

[TSe419E]

But they didn't get them at the same time according to the writer of the document.

[Major duck]

1 hour ago, TSe419E said:

But they didn't get them at the same time according to the writer of the document.

See told you i was wrong !!

Anyways according to NATO ORDER OF BATTLE 1989 V8.5

 

 

a. 3rd Armored Division - Frankfurt-am-Main, FRG: 

 

1) 1st Brigade - Kirchgoens, FRG: 

a) 2-32nd Armor Battalion: M1A1

b) 4-32nd Armor Battalion: M1A1

c) 3-5th Armored Cavalry Squadron: M2

d) 5-5th Armored Cavalry Squadron: M2

2) 2nd Brigade - Gelnhausen, FRG: 

a) 3-8th Armored Cavalry Squadron: M1A1

b) 4-8th Armored Cavalry Squadron: M1A1 

c) 5-18th Mech Infantry Battalion: M2 

3) 3rd Brigade - Friedberg, FRG: 

a) 2-67th Armor Battalion: M1A1

b) 4-67th Armor Battalion: M1A1

c) 1-36th Mech Infantry Battalion: M2 (former 1-48th?)

4) 3rd Combat Aviation Brigade - Hanau, FRG: 

a) 4th Sqdn 7th Cavalry Regt - Budingen, FRG: M3m113 CFV
 

b) 2-227th Attack Helicopter Battalion: 21 AH1F, 13 OH58C, 3 UH60A

c) 3-227th Attack Helicopter Battalion: 18 AH64A, 13 OH58C, 3 UH60A

d) G Co/227th Aviation Regiment: 6 UH1H, 6 OH58A, 6 OH58D, 3 EH60

e) H Co/227th Aviation Regiment: 15 UH60A

5) 3rd AD Divarty - Hanau, FRG: 

a) 2-3rd Field Artillery Battalion - Butzbach, FRG: 24 M109A3

b) 2-82nd Field Artillery Battalion - Gelnhausen, FRG: 24 M109A3

c) 4-82nd Field Artillery Battalion - Friedburg, FRG: 24 M109A3

d) A Battery, 40th Field Artillery Regiment - Hanau, FRG: 9 MLRS

e) F Battery, 333rd Field Artillery Regiment:  target acquisition battery

6) 3rd AD Discom - Hanau, FRG:

7) 23rd Engineer Battalion - Hanau, FRG: 4 dozers, 8 AVLB, 8 CEV, 4 M88, 12 MAB (bridge)

😎 3-5th Air Defense Battalion - Budingen, FRG: 24 Chaparral, 27 Vulcan SP, 72 Stinger

9) 533rd Military Intelligence Battalion (CEWI) - Frankfurt, FRG:

10) 503rd Military Police Company:

11) 22nd Chemical Company:

 

 

b. 8th Infantry Division (Mechanized) - Bad Kreuznach, FRG: 

 

1) 1st Brigade - Gonsenhim, FRG: 

a) 1-68th Armor Battalion: M1A1

b) 4-69th Armor Battalion: M1A1

c) 3-8th Mech Infantry Battalion: M113

d) 5-8th Mech Infantry Battalion: M113

2) 2nd Brigade - Baumholder, FRG: 

a) 2-68th Armor Battalion: M1A1

b) 1-13th Mech Infantry Battalion: M113

c) 1-39th Mech Infantry Battalion: M113

3) 3rd Brigade - Sandhofen, FRG: 

a) 5-68th Armor Battalion: M1A1

b) 5-77th Armor Battalion: M60A3

c) 4-8th Mech Infantry Battalion: M113

4) 8th Combat Aviation Brigade - Mainz-Finthen, FRG: 

a) 3rd Squadron 7th Cavalry Regiment - Mannheim, FRG: M60A3

b) 2-4th Attack Helicopter Battalion: 21 AH1F, 13 OH58C, 3 UH60A

c) 3-4th Attack Helicopter Battalion: 21 AH1F, 13 OH58C, 3 UH60A

d) G Co/4th Aviation Regiment: 6 UH1H, 6 OH58A, 6 OH58D, 3 EH60

e) H Co/4th Aviation Regiment: 15 UH60A

5) 8th ID Divarty - Baumholder, FRG: 

a) 229th Field Artillery Battalion: 24 M109A3

b) 4-29th Field Artillery Battalion: 24 M109A3

c) 6-29th Field Artillery Battalion: 24 M109A3

d) C Battery, 18th Field Artillery Regiment: 9 MLRS

e) C Battery, 333rd Field Artillery Regiment:  target acquisition battery

6) 8th ID Discom - Mainz, FRG:

7) 12th Engineer Battalion - Dexheim, FRG: 4 dozers, 8 AVLB, 8 CEV, 4 M88, 12 MAB (bridge)

😎 1-59th Air Defense Battalion - Wachenheim, FRG: 24 Chaparral, 27 Vulcan SP, 72 Stinger

9) 108th Military Intelligence Battalion - Bad Kreuch, FRG:

10) 8th Military Police Company - Bad Kreuch, FRG:

11) 25th Chemical Company:

So the minor difference is that at the time 8th INF DIV hadn't yet received their M2s  and 1 BTN still had M60A3 and as the M1 was issued from 1986 onwards and a lot was emergency upgraded during the Gulf war in 1991 so since both 8th INF and 3rd AD had all but 1 of their Tank BTNs shifted already in 89 that means that they must have been done at almost the same time.
 As many of the armored BTNs sent to the gulf war 1991 change their tanks in theater from M1s to M1A1.
Also notice at the time there where almost no difference in number of TANK and INF BTNS in divisions at the time ADs should have had 6 Tank and 5 INF and INFs should have had 5 Tank and 6 INF but that was not the case with 3AD 6T & 4 I  and 8th INF 5T & 5I though that might have been because of the Fulda Gap scenario or some Reforger reinforcement i haven't read up on.
Also notice that where i write M113 it means its the old INF force structure with M113 and M901s like Cav has describe previous

MD 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Major duck

[Volcano]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:38 PM, TSe419E said:

Because they had older M1s/M60A1/3s and the M1A1 was just coming out?  I really couldn't tell you.

 

Yes, I think that was it -- the 8ID was still using M1A0s by late 1980s (87-88), so maybe they had priority (along with M60A3s and M113s they were also fielding).  Certainly that MBT campaign has them (8ID) using M1A0s, and the guy who made the original content was an armor officer from the period.  Eight up!

[Stormin Norman]

3 hours ago, MAJ_Fubar said:

3rd AD completed NET to M1A1s in October of '88, I was there.

This is very intersting. Were you an armor crewman at the time and what is NET?

[MAJ_Fubar]

29 minutes ago, Stormin Norman said:

This is very intersting. Were you an armor crewman at the time and what is NET?

Yep, a newly minted 19K, and NET stands for "New Equipment Training".

[Stormin Norman]

Well alrighty then that solves it. Only makes sense. And thank you for your service from a fellow 19k.

[RedWardancer]

I can tell you about the 24th Mechanized Division's TO&E from 1988 through the Gulf War when I served.  The 3/69, 1/64, and 4/64 Armor battalions were M1A1s; the 2/7, 3/7, and 3/15 Infantry battalions were M2A1s.  The rest were stuff like the M901's, Apaches, Paladins, Dragon ATGMs, AT-4 were new, and so on.  

[Major duck]

 

24th Infantry Division (Mech) - Ft Stewart, GA:

The 24th ID would take 10-14 days to deploy to Europe using 5 Ro-Ro ships, the 48th GA National Guard Brigade would require 30 days. 

 

1) 1st Brigade: 

a) 4-64th Armor Battalion: M1

b) 1-263rd Armor Battalion - South Carolina NG: M1

c) 2-7th Mech Infantry Battalion: M2 

d) 3-7th Mech Infantry Battalion: M2

2) 2nd Brigade: 

a) 1-64th Armor Battalion: M1

b) 3-69th Armor Battalion: M1

c) 3-15th Mech Infantry Battalion: M2 

3) 48th Mech Infantry Brigade – Macon, GA:  Georgia National Guard

a) 1-108 th Armor Battalion – Calhoun, GA: M1 

b) 1-121st Mech Infantry Battalion – Dublin, GA: M2

c) 2-121st Mech Infantry Battalion – Albany, GA: M2

d) Troop E, 348th Cavalry – Griffin, GA

4) 24th Combat Aviation Brigade:

a) 2nd Sqdn, 4th Cavalry Regt: 40 M3A1, 10 M113, 4 M106, 4 M577, 8 AH1F, 12 OH58C, 1 UH1H

b) 1-24th Attack Helicopter Battalion: 21 AH1F, 13 OH58C, 3 UH1H

c) D Co/24th Aviation Regiment: 6 UH1H, OH58A, 6 OH58D, 3 EH60

d) E Co/24th Aviation Regiment: 15 UH60A

5) 24th ID Divarty:

a) 1-41st Field Artillery Battalion: 24 M109A3

b) 3-41st Field Artillery Battalion: 24 M109A3

c) 1-230th Field Artillery Battalion  -- Waycross, GA; GA ARNG: 24 M109A3 

d) A Battery, 13th Field Artillery Regiment: 9 MLRS

e) 1-14th Field Artillery Battlaion:  M110A2?

f) G Battery, 333rd Field Artillery Regiment:  target acquisition battery

6) 24th ID Discom:

7) 3rd Combat Engineer Battalion: 4 dozers, 8 AVLB, 8 CEV, 4 M88, 12 MAB (bridge)

😎 1-5th Air Defense Battalion: 24 Chaparral, 24 Vulcan SP, 60 Stinger

9) 124th Military Intelligence Battalion (CEWI):

10) 24th Military Police Company:

11) 91st Chemical Company:

[TSe419E]

That's a very different TOE than when I was in the 24th, '80-'81.  We were designated as part of the RDF, Rapid Deployment Force, along with the 82nd and the 101st.  We were to be airlifted in C-5s and C141s out of Hunter Army Airfield if tshtf (thinking was we were going primarily to the Mid-east/Med AO).

[Major duck]

17 minutes ago, TSe419E said:

That's a very different TOE than when I was in the 24th, '80-'81.  We were designated as part of the RDF, Rapid Deployment Force, along with the 82nd and the 101st.  We were to be airlifted in C-5s and C141s out of Hunter Army Airfield if tshtf (thinking was we were going primarily to the Mid-east/Med AO).

10. XVIII US Airborne Corps HQ - Ft Bragg, NC - Rapid Deployment Force:

Consisted of:

 

82nd Airborne Division - Ft Bragg, NC: The 82nd could deploy a battalion task force within 24 hours and a brigade task force within 3 days. The remainder of the Division would take up to 10 days to deploy. 

101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) - Ft Campbell, KY: The 101st would use air and sea lift assets to deploy requiring 10 days for a brigade task force and up to 30 days for the remainder of the Division.

10th Mountain Division (Light) - Ft Drum, NY - contingency mission to reinforce Norway, deploying within 10 days:

24th Infantry Division (Mech) - Ft Stewart, GA: The 24th ID would take 10-14 days to deploy to Europe using 5 Ro-Ro ships, the 48th GA National Guard Brigade would require 30 days. 

194th Armored Brigade - Ft Knox, KY - REFORGER unit, POMCUS set 3 at Pirmasens, FRG:

197th Infantry Brigade (Mech) - Ft Benning, GA - REFORGER unit, POMCUS set 3 at Pirmasens, FRG: 

18th Combat Aviation Brigade - Ft Bragg, NC:

18th Field Artillery Brigade - Ft Bragg, NC:

11th Air Defense Artillery Brigade – Ft. Bliss, TX:

16th Military Police Brigade:

1st Support Command - Ft Bragg, NC:

 

That's for 1989 

[Major duck]

7 hours ago, RedWardancer said:

I can tell you about the 24th Mechanized Division's TO&E from 1988 through the Gulf War when I served.  The 3/69, 1/64, and 4/64 Armor battalions were M1A1s; the 2/7, 3/7, and 3/15 Infantry battalions were M2A1s.  The rest were stuff like the M901's, Apaches, Paladins, Dragon ATGMs, AT-4 were new, and so on.  

I am a bit confused you mention M901s where they not removed from the infantry when they got the M2s ?

MD

[TSe419E]

Mech Infantry Battalions had an AT Company that consisted of three platoons of 1x M113 (Plt Ldr) and four M901s.

[RedWardancer]

7 hours ago, Major duck said:

I am a bit confused you mention M901s where they not removed from the infantry when they got the M2s ?

MD

The M901s were E company, while companies A thru D were the M2s.  If my ancient memory serves, the scout platoon in a HHC had the TOWS mounted on Hummers along with M2 mounts at the time, but the cavalry had M3s, M1A1s, and Hummers.  Not sure when the M901s were phased out in the line companies, but ANGs had them for a lot longer. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by RedWardancer

[Michael Ramsey]

On 10/14/2021 at 10:22 AM, TSe419E said:

That's a very different TOE than when I was in the 24th, '80-'81.  We were designated as part of the RDF, Rapid Deployment Force, along with the 82nd and the 101st.  We were to be airlifted in C-5s and C141s out of Hunter Army Airfield if tshtf (thinking was we were going primarily to the Mid-east/Med AO).

2-70th Armor 24th Infantry the electric strawberry! Left Ft Stewart for Germany 1979 (11E) M60A1

[TSe419E]

13 minutes ago, Michael Ramsey said:

2-70th Armor 24th Infantry the electric strawberry! Left Ft Stewart for Germany 1979 (11E) M60A1

I got there in February 1980.  B Troop, 2/9 Cavalry.

[Michael Ramsey]

I do remember the 2/9th CAV, there was another Armor Battalion that escapes me, anyway 11E10 to 19K40H8 what a strange trip its been, wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

[RedWardancer]

We Treadheads are a special bunch. 😎