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Making my first scenario, some questions.


Poofydoodle

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Hi guys, I have a fair bit of experience making missions in operation flashpoint, arma 1 and 2, and a bit of experience in LOMAC and DCS but am new to steel beasts.

 

Im working on my first mission set in 1990 which involves an ampihious task force with a luchs and some fuchs apcs taking out a sam site then attacking and holding a compound with gunship support and probabaly help of some local insurgents and airborne reinforcements.

 

I have a few questions:

 

Is it possible to set up units to run looping patrol routes say infantry walking thr perimeter of a base? Im still learning exactly how waypoints work and retreat points work etc. Also is it possible to assign waypoints to infantry inside apcs?

 

Is it possible to make the gunship orbit the area or continue to make passes over the target rather than just hovering there after the dug in tanks are destroyed or will it do this if it sees more units to destroy?

 

On the greek island map included in the map pack if i set it to be nignt there is always a sun. I wanted the mission to start just before dawn and have an advantage of night vision that gets less valuable as the mission goes on and the sun rises but I had to make it start right at sunrise, which still has a similar effect just not for very long is this intentional due to the islands position at certain times of year or a bug with the map?

 

Also is there anywhere that gives a rundown on how to setup the random spawners? I wanted to use one for the counter attack.

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Oh i almost forgot, I have a FAC team in the fuchs who can call in airstrikes, but I want to make it so those airstrikes arent available until after the 3 active Gaskins are destroyed.

 

Also in regards to building outposts an enemy bases checkpoints etc im guessing those objects involve editing the map moreso than on a per mission basis?

Edited by Poofydoodle
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There are a bunch of questions there that do not lend themselves to binary "Yes" / "No" / "Read the manual" type answers, but for brevity:

 

1. a. Yes

 

1. b. Yes

 

2. Yes.

 

3. Yes, just set a time during the night

 

4. Yes, the Manual.

 

5. Yes.

 

6. Yes you need to edit the map - which means potential players (if you intend to share it) need to download it prior to playing.

 

As I said though, depending on the exact effect you want to achieve its probably better to arrange a time to meet to discuss the "how" as opposed to me writing pages and find I haven't exactly answered your question.

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Looping patrols are easy, just create a waypoint (or waypoints) and route a unit through them, and have a route looping back to the beginning. If you want the infantry to "break out" of the loop, then add a route exiting the loop with some kind of "embark if" condition, or just have the PC show up and mount them up with a "mount" command.

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2 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

Is it possible to set up units to run looping patrol routes say infantry walking thr perimeter of a base? Im still learning exactly how waypoints work

Yes. Have a unit walk to it's initial waypoint. Then create a circular route - or a chain of routes - that end at the first waypoint. Using a chain of routes allows you to randomize the patrol path a bit at a later point when the basics of the scenario work and you want to embellish things a bit.

2 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

Also is it possible to assign waypoints to infantry inside apcs?

Right-click an APC's route waypoint, then Troops... dismount (or dismount, if...). They will then follow the same route, or if you branch the route from that waypoint you can give one the embark condition to follow if the unit is the platoon callsign (so the dismounted troops won't use it, and therefore pick the other one; that way you don't have to dismount the troops in the Mission Editor to memorize their invidivual callsigns).

2 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

Is it possible to make the gunship orbit the area or continue to make passes over the target rather than just hovering there after the dug in tanks are destroyed or will it do this if it sees more units to destroy?

You have to plot the routes and define the conditions accordingly - but yes, it's possible.

3 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

On the greek island map included in the map pack if i set it to be nignt there is always a sun.

It's possible that the time zone for the island is off, or that maybe it's not actually a Greek island but one inside the arctic circle, and if the time of the year is around midsummer then maybe the sun actually doesn't set. So, you may want to open Alt+S in the 3D view and set the time in eight hour intervals. You should quickly figure out when the sun actually sets (if at all). If it doesn't, change the time of the year by two or three months.

 

3 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

Also is there anywhere that gives a rundown on how to setup the random spawners?

Funny you should ask:

 

3 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

I have a FAC team in the fuchs who can call in airstrikes, but I want to make it so those airstrikes arent available until after the 3 active Gaskins are destroyed.

Give the FAC radio damage and a repair, if... for the radio damage, with the condition that the Gaskins are destroyed.

3 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

in regards to building outposts an enemy bases checkpoints etc im guessing those objects involve editing the map moreso than on a per mission basis?

SOME objects (containers, mostly) can be set in the Mission Editor, but typically you'd do this in the Map Editor. Which means, you need to save an existing map as a new delta map (to keep the file size small), then edit it to your heart's content, save it, and when you're sure that you are done with all changes, publish it.

If you want to share your scenario later, you'll also have to make the delta map available.

 

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Thank you very much guys, sorry if some of this was a bit RTFM I posted it from work when I remembered I wanted some advice for when I got home to work on the scenario.

The whole courses being seperate from waypoints thing is going to take some getting used to but it seems like it can be very cool once I fully learn how it works.

When I tried the map at night it had stars visible high in the sky but sunlight low and the sun and moon were in almost the same place in the sky so I will have to mess with it a little haha, but if the mission starts right at dawn thats not a super big deal.

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30 minutes ago, natemo said:

The looping patrol is not a true loop it will end correct?  i was hoping to say once you get to way point 1 go back to way point 2 .

iam i wrong? 

 

It depends on how you build it.

 

If it has say some "embark if ..." legs and those criteria at some point are not satisfied, then yes it will end.

 

However if its just a collection of waypoints with an entry track (think of a horse or dog race track if you like) once you get on the oval (say waypoint 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 1 ...) it will continue until something interferes with it (shot at, destroyed, etc.)

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On departure of a unit, waypoints to which no routes lead will be deleted. A looping route or route chain has, by definition, always a route leading to whichever waypoint inside the loop the unit may currently occupy. Hence, as the unit marches along the patrol route, no waypoint will be deleted and therefore the unit will keep patrolling to the end of the scenario, or until it gets destroyed.

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Yes I think I managed to figure it out, I was able to make a helicopter fly over the target area over and over the only thing was when it got back to the first waypoint that had a retreat line assigned it would ask for permission to proceed to go around again.

 

Im guessing assigning an ai CO would automate this? Or making the unit not belong to the player? Im trying to automate the friendly ai as much as possible so that someone doesnt have to do in depth commanding if they dont want to and can focus on operating the luchs. I have a wiesel with a tow that I think will be more fun to destroy the dug in tanks defending the compound but I guess ill have to set up some battle points and learn how they work so the ai knows where to setup?

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You can set "ownership" (Unit Options) to "computer", or "player" (default) or "player, if" to release units to player cmd at a later point in the scenario. This controls ther player's abiöity to give commands to a unit during the Planning and the Execution Phase.

 

But that's it. There's no higher level AI to make tactical decisions for the player, or the mission designer.

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So when a unit comes up on a waypoint and does not want to proceed without the player commanding them what controls that?  What determines when it does or doesnt happen? And I meant more just setting up the ai to attack an obective withour having to micromanage them a bunch but also not having them suicide charge haha.

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If the Waypoint is set to something other than "none" the AI will remain on that waypoint with the given tactic. If you want them to procees onto a route attached from that waypoint you set a Embark if and tell them under which condition they should move on.

All the concepts are IMHO very well explained on the wiki
https://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Moving_Units_On_Routes

Edited by oakdesign
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Also, Chapter 8 of the User's Manual. If you have time for only a single chapter, read this. The other 30% of all support questions are related to the section about the file structure in the chapter about installation that explains which files go where, and why you should never overwrite files in the program directory but rather use the mods folder.

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Ah thanks I got confused because I guess I thought some waypoints were moving on their own without "embark if", thank you! Ill mess around some more after work and check out the manual in more detail. I have so many ideas for missions developing I kinda gotta force myself to not end up with a bunch of unfinished ones.

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A waypoint, unlike a route node, can be assigned properties. Like, a tactical behavior, or being the root point of a route branch (and the end point of a route). Route nodes would only let you change direction.

A waypoint with no tactic assigned will typically not stop a unit ... unless the follow-on routes are conditioned (visual cue: dashed line).

 

Note that with unconditioned routes there are, depending on current tactical behavior set, there are implicit embark conditions. They are explained in Chapter 8 of the User's Manual, and are essential to understanding the rules by which computer-controlled units react to various situations.

 

Did I mention Chapter 8 already, and how it's indispensable to a deeper understanding of Steel Beasts (and saving you lots of  potential frustration)? Yeah, Chapter 8. Good old Chapter 8.

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On 11/9/2021 at 7:27 PM, Gibsonm said:

 

It depends on how you build it.

 

If it has say some "embark if ..." legs and those criteria at some point are not satisfied, then yes it will end.

 

However if its just a collection of waypoints with an entry track (think of a horse or dog race track if you like) once you get on the oval (say waypoint 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 1 ...) it will continue until something interferes with it (shot at, destroyed, etc.)

Thanks for the reply!

How do you tell someone at WP 4 to go to 1?  Well i think i figured it out.

You can click on a WP to close a loop i never really understood this from reading PG 39  notice that noted in the manual. be great if more tuts on mission editing was on the youtube for it to be more clear. I wish more people new this gem of a sim. 

 

Thanks

 

 

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1 hour ago, natemo said:

How do you tell someone at WP 4 to go to 1? 

 

 

You just draw a route from Waypoint 4 back to Waypoint 1 to close the loop you are trying to create

 

It looks like this (in its simplest form):

 

1155814122_simpleloop.thumb.png.43f30d4a222dc329fd5e139dd8fb6506.png

 

A slightly more complicated version (made for @Poofydoodle) looks like this:

 

SS_18_04_52.thumb.jpg.84df0aa713bd4c6e2f74657612dfc162.jpg

 

Removing the underlying map makes it clearer:

 

SS_18_05_15.thumb.jpg.826546fd022ff2644c7878faa33ea8d4.jpg

 

I added some notes for him to explain what was happening on the various legs.

 

Edited by Gibsonm
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On 11/10/2021 at 10:59 PM, Gibsonm said:

 

You just draw a route from Waypoint 4 back to Waypoint 1 to close the loop you are trying to create

 

It looks like this (in its simplest form):

 

1155814122_simpleloop.thumb.png.43f30d4a222dc329fd5e139dd8fb6506.png

 

A slightly more complicated version (made for @Poofydoodle) looks like this:

 

SS_18_04_52.thumb.jpg.84df0aa713bd4c6e2f74657612dfc162.jpg

 

Removing the underlying map makes it clearer:

 

SS_18_05_15.thumb.jpg.826546fd022ff2644c7878faa33ea8d4.jpg

 

I added some notes for him to explain what was happening on the various legs.

 

Thanks again for that scenario, very helpful! The waypoint system in this game is very powerful once you know how to use it.

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