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SAPHEI killing T-62


Poofydoodle
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Just had a stupid lucky shot while playtesting my newest mission. I took some pot shots through some bushes at a T62 with SAPHEI to try and keep their heads down or distract them while my spike team crept up, I noticed a bit later that the tank was dead and thought it was weird I didnt hear it.

Well turns out a mostly blind potshot from the VECs 25mm hit in such a way to punch through and cause spalling inside and take out the crew, considering these SAPHEI have trouble penetrating a BTR from the side this is pretty ridiculous haha, I saved the AAR if anyone wants to see it for themselves.

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5 hours ago, Poofydoodle said:

Just had a stupid lucky shot while playtesting my newest mission. I took some pot shots through some bushes at a T62 with SAPHEI to try and keep their heads down or distract them while my spike team crept up, I noticed a bit later that the tank was dead and thought it was weird I didnt hear it.

Well turns out a mostly blind potshot from the VECs 25mm hit in such a way to punch through and cause spalling inside and take out the crew, considering these SAPHEI have trouble penetrating a BTR from the side this is pretty ridiculous haha, I saved the AAR if anyone wants to see it for themselves.

SS_20_24_50.jpg

SS_20_24_56.jpg

SS_20_25_41.jpg

SS_20_25_48.jpg

SS_20_26_11.jpg

SS_20_26_21.jpg

SS_20_27_02.jpg

...is now bug #10244

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Probably rare enough not to happen when you want it but common enough to appear when you don't.

 

Yet insignificant enough to be shrugged off... Untill it happens once too many to someone and then...  This. 

 

-

 

I have and keep investing lot to Steelbeast in many ways. Such as telling people how good this sim is and bringing in new people. And i keep teaching them to use AAR tool to learn. And we go through our performance... And then something like this comes up .. that i just cannot explain coherently. 

 

I have developed few sentences for it.

"It's likely a fault in modeling armor when projectile meets horizontal surfaces"

"Uh these things can happen on all games when there's unexpected collision" 

 "This is 20 year old base engine it has some limits" 

 

And so on... But I'm sure that you understand that it nags me every time when such happens. And that is... "Noticable annoyance" 

 

With friends we often laugh at it being just one of properties of Steelbeast. 

"Unexplainable to our common sense or real life physics but totally normal for Steelbeast" 

Thus i have been long enough in these forums to remember several examples where there's been .... Questionable stuff noticed from AAR. 

 

And sadly i feel like even when "surprising AAR results happens "often" it isn't or hasn't been worth of bringing up. 

 

I don't have numbers for it .. but if there's interest to get numbers... I humbly suggest creating a topic where people could post screenshots whenever stuff like this happens. Then developers could get idea of what this fuss is about. Perhaps users have missed some physics lessons. Or maybe it's because of something in engine devs know about. Or maybe it is mystery to all parties. Or better yet... Stuff is actually really rare not to be bothered.  Of course we couldn't get all pictures.. but i have feeling that if I'm brushing this kind stuff of frequently. Others here might as well. Hence this suggestion that could perhaps over time develop into problem revealing behavior that developers could more readily detect eeerm .... "Problems" on "somewhere" 

I don't intend that devs should reply to each crazy AAR result picture. To explain it. It would be too overhelming and too much work. But... A topic where we users could post those kind of screenshots and devs could use for example this forum function of hitting "reaction" button to let one who has uploaded know that it's been "noticed" and perhaps even to use some specific reaction for or something like that. 

 

Anyways. Thank you @Poofydoodlefor bringing this up. Thank you @Grenny for taking it seriously.

 

Sorry for long "rant"

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One possible explanation is that under certain conditions 32 bit floating point accuracy isn't good enough to prevent edge cases where fragments spawn on the other side of an infinitely thin "armored" surface (armored, because the data says so), so they have their full destructive potential undiminished.

This could happen about once every 200 shots or so (remember the report when T-72s were killed by cal .50), and was supposedly mitigated (by switching to 64 bit floating point accuracy...) in the sense that it would happen only once in about 20,000 cases. But it has now happened at least four times in about 2,000 cases, so we're still at that old ratio. Which tells me that there's either another factor at work, or the fix doesn't work as intended. We'll keep investigating.

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7 hours ago, Ssnake said:

It's probably a bit more complicated than that, possibly even a conflation of several conditions that must come together. Happens rarely enough to be a pain testing, but apparently frequently enough to be a noticeable annoyance. :o

I'm now somewhere in the ballpark of 2000 shots...with 2 cases if it happening

 

The annoying thing: these 2 cases happned within the first 10 shots...so I realy thought: "yepp, found it...reproducable."

More testing proved me wrong then 😕

Edited by Grenny
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You fired a couple hundred shots. I fired several hundreds. The original report probably had a few fired before it happened. Four events, and somewhere between 500 and 2000 shots fired in total. It's about ballpark estimates to illustrate a point, not a thesis paper in stochastics with binary floating point calculus.

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10 hours ago, Ssnake said:

You fired a couple hundred shots. I fired several hundreds. The original report probably had a few fired before it happened. Four events, and somewhere between 500 and 2000 shots fired in total. It's about ballpark estimates to illustrate a point, not a thesis paper in stochastics with binary floating point calculus.

You don't know what I've been doing in the past hours and an endless belt on the vehicle 😉

 

Update...4000 rounds now 😉

Edited by Grenny
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