Helicopter behavior, SBwiki page updated

[Volcano]

To better understand the new and improved helicopter AI, the "Moving Units on Routes" SBwiki page has been updated:

 

https://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Moving_Units_On_Routes

 

For the time being, it was felt that the helicopter AI should be shoehorned into the routes page. 😛

 

It would be good if you reviewed how the helicopter AI route behavior works, so you can know how to best use them in Execution Phase and also in the Mission Editor.

Fear the helicopter.

We have a lot of information to put into SBwiki, and this will have to happen over a long period of time (like a new unified drones page, T-72B3 page, etc), but keep in mind that updating the wiki happens "on the side". We are thankful to all those who help in this regard (you know who you are). 🙂

 

[Apocalypse 31]

Quote

Helicopter will "break off" the attack run, and circle back around for another attempt if it fails to destroy the target.

 

First impression: The attack runs are good, but it needs work. 

 

Observations:

A helicopter (AH64) makes an attack run, fires two rockets and then does an 8 kilometer racetrack. Is there a way to reduce its racetrack loop?

 

Aircraft are not firing 30mm regularly (the gun is pointed at targets, but no trigger pull). Sometimes it does, but sometimes it doesn't - even when a target is blatantly present. 30mm is still not very accurate.

 

I watched two AH64 make a seven attack runs on a single rifle squad (one apache was shot down) and the rifle squad was never destroyed. 

 

 

Please don't take this as me shitting on the hard work of the developers- this is a nice advancement for the helicopters but still there's room for improvement here. 

[Volcano]

Right, well, the intent of this thread was to just let people know a general description of how it works, so they can intelligently use them with routes - but by all means this could be also be a discussion on observations too (although it might go under the radar, no pun intended). That said, no one thinks there isn't any room for improvement on the helicopters - like everything else its not perfect and needs improvement.  

 

The Apache shouldn't be doing an 8km race track, but I think it depends on the terrain, and whether or not its being shot at, and whether or not it can see the enemy, and it might be taking into account the range of its ATGM and the known targets (because the helicopter is aware of targets that it sees, gets into sort of a "hunt/attack mode", and is then trying to get maximum stand off range to avoid danger). You would have to run some experiments to know why it would be making that long of a race track -- but I'd say its probably the terrain, presence of known enemies, possibly lack of cover, range of the ATGM -- something in that order. Certainly the Hind and Cobra do not do this long race track and are quite effective.

 

Still, the race track length is not necessarily a terrible thing - but scenario designers will have to take this into consideration in their map selection, and presence of penalty zones (most penalty zones should be made so that helicopters are exempt).

 

Gun accuracy (lack there of) is a known issue - it has to do with the helicopter height, and also the fact that its usually flying fast closing the range on the target, so its really just a spray and pray type thing right now. Still, the gun should really be the last thing the helicopter uses in almost every case, unless you removed all other weapons to see how it behaves, and then you get what you get there. But from what I have seen, when the helicopter has ATGMs and rockets, it deals death unlike before and once it gets down to guns, its probably time to fly away. Scenario designers might even want to consider giving the helicopter half gun ammo, or no gun ammo, to avoid or limit gun usage (its up to you).

 

 

 

 

 

[Colebrook]

Helicopters now dont engage enemy helicopters with atgms, is this a bug or changed on purpouse?

[Jartsev]

42 minutes ago, Colebrook said:

Helicopters now dont engage enemy helicopters with atgms, is this a bug or changed on purpouse?

They could use ATGMs, but chances are not great because of following factors:

 

-Weapon selection priorities by AI against helicopter target:

1) Guns

2) Rockets

3) ATGMs

 

 -Limited number of possible attack runs against each individual target- 1 to 3 depending of route tactics.

[Volcano]

Also, given how much helicopter evade now, using ATGMs on each other was felt to be a bad thing - they would waste them - since they don't hover like brain-dead targets now.

 

So really, best thing to do is hope they hit each other with guns or rockets, or rely on air defense or ground vehicles to deal with it. Of course in real life, I imagine that two helicopters fighting with guns and rockets against each other is also going to be no only quite the dogfight, but probably not very effective. 

[TSe419E]

7 hours ago, Volcano said:

So really, best thing to do is hope they hit each other with guns or rockets, or rely on air defense or ground vehicles to deal with it. Of course in real life, I imagine that two helicopters fighting with guns and rockets against each other is also going to be no only quite the dogfight, but probably not very effective. 

I should make a clip of that one fight you had during a TGIF session.  It really illustrates your point.