SPAA and SPSAM assets

[plastictree]

Hi guys

The thread here http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=12900 piqued my interest - I was wondering if the community had information on the deployment of SPAA and SPSAM assets in various forces, specifically during the 1980's and at a company/battalion level.

For example, according to some Orders of Battle a Soviet Tank Regiment in a Guards Tank Division in the late 80's had 4 SPAA and 4 SPSAM vehicles. Would these have been kept under regimental control, or were they parceled out to the individual battalions or companies?

Also, Guards Tank Divisions also seem to have included an air defense regiment, consisting of both medium and short range SPSAMs and manpack SAMs. Would these have likewise been allocated down to regimental level depending on need, or kept in a central location, perhaps as integral air defence for the Divisional HQ and logistical train?

I'm particularly interested in information on the following forces:

West Germany (the thread I've mentioned above http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=12900 had great info on how the Gepard was deployed, but what about the Roland?)

US Army

BAOR

DDR

Canada

China

[GaryOwen]

This might be interesting, if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.1stusvcav.com/red_guards/index.html

[GH_Lieste]

More here:

http://www.armouredacorn.com/orbatrussian1.html

[Tacbat]

Canadian ADATS: http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/2_display.asp?product=65&more=65

[Hackworth]

This might be interesting, if you haven't seen it yet:

http://www.1stusvcav.com/red_guards/index.html

From Gary's article on tactics:

http://www.1stusvcav.com/Tactics/Page%202.html

When you play co-operatively with other real teammates, they will, like their virtual counterparts have maddening idiosyncrasies that become more predictable with increasing familiarity. They are, however, different in that they will still occasionally get lost, commit fratricide, and ignore orders.

great articles there Gary! Seriously...

but, boy was it funny when I ran into the end of this paragraph.

[Hackworth]

Gary's site has your answer for the Russians/Soviets. The diagrams look almost identical to those shown in two old Army manuals (circa early 80's) collecting dust at my place. It seems the Motorized Rifle Regiment in the Attack diagram shows the regimental CP and regimental artillery group covered by a SAM platoon while two platoons of AA operate with the leading two battalions just behind the leading elements (1 km). Since we will have the Tunguska with guns and SAM we can assume it can cover all three positions.

The MR Battalion Attack diagram also shows the forward AA platoon operating just behind the forward companies and in front of the BN CP. However, you will note the very small frontages on these diagrams. The SAM coverage at the Regimental CP would probably cover the attacking battalions as well to some extent (higher flying aircraft or line of sight targets within range; thus the close in AA for the attacking BNs).

Going from Real Life to SB regarding the frontages: with some weapon systems, specifically those with longer range weapons or units operating in the desert, you can open this space up. but, you would want to make sure your SPAA coverage still accomplishes the same goal -- covering your attacking force and CP.

Back to OOB...If you look closely at the OOBs of the MR BNs and the Tank BNs, you will notice neither have SPAA attached. The MR BN has an AD platoon, but they are MANPADs. The Tank BN, of course, does not have these. But you will notice the MR Regiment does have SPAA. My guess is that administratively regiment retained control, but individual systems would be chopped out to BNs during combat. The independent Tank BN doesn't have SPAA either on that OOB. Liest's OOB for the 1989 Soviet BMP equiped MRR supports this as well. Other than the types of equipment used, the BTR MRR is the same (BTR regiment's battery uses a mix of SPSAM [x4] and ZSU-23-4 [x4] while the BMP regiments use 2S6 [x6]). On the site Liest references, the OOB for a tank regiment in 1989 does contain an AD battery consisting of the same OOB as the BTR equiped MRR''s battery. Also, the attached MR BN in the tank regiment shows the platoon of MANPADs. Again, I am thinking the regiment would chop part of the battery down to the attacking battalions while covering the RAG and Reg CP with the remainder.

hmmm, fun reading. hope that helps some.

[GaryOwen]

great articles there Gary! Seriously...

but, boy was it funny when I ran into the end of this paragraph.

Thanks. Of course I was referring mostly to things that I've done to madden my teammates.

[Ssnake]

The thread here http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=12900 piqued my interest - I was wondering if the community had information on the deployment of SPAA and SPSAM assets in various forces, specifically during the 1980's and at a company/battalion level.

...

I'm particularly interested in information on the following forces:

West Germany (the thread I've mentioned above http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=12900 had great info on how the Gepard was deployed, but what about the Roland?)

During the Heeresstruktur IV each division of the Bundeswehr had one Flugabwehrregiment (air defense regiment) with four Gepard batteries (one per brigade) and one Roland battery; consequently, if there was on average one Gepard per company one see one Roland per battalion which fits nicely with its operational range of 5000m (Roland 2) or 8000m (Roland 3).