4.363 Leopard 2E, AI gunner behavior with GPS / GAS damage.

[Lumituisku]

 

I played Leopard 2E, instant action

GPS and GAS were damaged when I was a gunner...  and I pulled away and this happened.   AAR and Report as attachement

 

 

@Commissar_Martin's comment hits spot on   

 

 

Also... at the end we can see how player can still man a position (and in other cases fight from it)  even when that position is supposed to be damaged.

 

AI gunner destroed 8 enemies with force alone.    

 

 

 

 

Leopardo 2E_11824_092422TUULI1946.aar Leopardo 2E.sce_11_09-24-22_19_46_25.htm

Edited September 24, 2022 by Lumituisku

[Volcano]

So what exactly is the problem? If we can limit the guesswork from these reports as much as possible then that would be best (to make sure there are no false assumptions). Just describe plainly please.

 

Is it that the AI gunner is still shooting with GPS and GAS damage? If so, why wouldn't he shoot? He can use the unity sight view, and the target is point blank range, but then again maybe I am missing the obvious without a clear description.  Then again there cold be other damage, its very difficult to see what the text is in the video thanks to video compression artifacts. 

[Ssnake]

Well, if the prevailing theory is that he's using a vision block to shoot, I'd expect the AI gunner to miss more often. I at least wouldn't expect the AI gunner to pull that off.

[Lumituisku]

Right. I am sorry that I though it would be plain obvious and that I didn't specify. 

 

I am not aware of any vision block that gunner would have on 2E.. or any leopard 2A5+    

 

On 2A4 there is vision block...    but I am not aware that 2A5+  there would be any? At least as a player I have not found access to vision block. Nor seen one in the vehicle.

 

So  with GPS and GAS down shouldn't AI gunner too be blind?   

[Ssnake]

Yes.

[Volcano]

Ah, well that makes more sense - and it's why this should be clearly described in the post.

 

Yes, I think the assumption is that the AI gunner will always be able to "see" through a vision block of some kind (so standard behavior is that they can always see), but some vehicles do not have one as we see (but remember that the base behavior existed from SB1 where all the modeled tanks did have one).  Now of course with a vision block/unity sight view available you can certainly pull off shots like that, I have done it myself by using the coaxial MG tracers/impact to figure out where the gun is pointing in elevation, then fire. The targets in the video are certainly within range to do that, but the AI doesn't also use the coaxial MG like this, it just "knows", but the overall effect is the same.

 

However...

 

In any case, its getting into the realm of where the AI gunners have to be dumbed down, and in this particular case there would need to be something specified on certain vehicles where the AI AFV essentially goes "blind" if the vehicle doesn't have a vision block view, and the commander is disabled. That would be the issue here (apart from improving the overall degraded AI gunner using the unity sight, of course).

[Lumituisku]

Also... another thing seen at the end of video is that I have experienced lot of situations where player is on gunner or TC position and continues to remain in one even when on damage list is disabled / incapacitated. It's visible at the end of video too. Basically. Often when this happens player is able to continue fighting. Not in video case though, because by then tank was inoperable. But it just shows it does happen. And when that happens if player switches away from supposed incapacitated position he is not able to return. As should be. But in my opinion when player position is listed as incapacitated, he shouldn't be able to use that position. 

 

And since this was instant action i played... It does happen on single player as well. Not only as multiplayer anomaly.

 

I did change position from gunner to TC when optics got damaged, perhaps that has something to do with it. But then again i am almost certain that i have seen Multi-crew cases where friend as gunner has stayed entire time as gunner when this has happened (possible F8 tabbing though) 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Lumituisku

[Volcano]

Right, this is a known issue all the way back to SB1 (that you can remain in the vehicle with no turret crew until you jump away, then you are locked out). It would certainly make more sense to eject the user to F8 view when the occupied crew position is damaged, but there are technical reasons (I believe it is another problem that goes back to the 'no external view setting' that can be set in single player, rhetorically where does the user get thrown to when dead in such cases?).

 

Need a sort of purgatory for the dead, where they are at map view but not in any vehicle until they select a unit to jump to, I suppose.